Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
A celebrated virtuoso of the flamenco guitar who has been voted into the top three guitarists in the world by US magazine Guitar Player, Juan Martín is a native of Andalucía, where he still has a home in Málaga. He spends much time on tour and in London where he has formed an international company, Flamencovision, for the promotion of high quality flamenco which he rehearses and brings direct from Andalucía.
this are quotes pulled off his official website, everypge that has his name on it starts out with this.
Arent u always wondering who does this voting that places him on top 3 best guitarist in the world ? U wanna lett a rock magazine tell you where he stands ?
u can vote anonymously on how u really feel, please try to be honest and fair, i am talking today, his skills and his music, where do you place him.
this is not about putting him down, u get to have your say and place him where u think he belongs.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
Presumably to vote you would need to have studied 500+ guitarists from a technique view point. You would also have to be comfortable with your own abilities to judge. On that basis I cannot vote for one.
Do negative votes help flamenco I wonder
_____________________________
nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to flyeogh)
quote:
Presumably to vote you would need to have studied 500+ guitarists from a technique view poin
SO am i to gues u dont see him somewhere in the top 499 ? ;-)
Yes just like the Us Magazine did i am sure..
quote:
You would also have to be comfortable with your own abilities to judge
U go to the cinema u watch a movie at the end u turn to your friend and tell him if u liked it of not (without beeing an actor), u go to a restaurant eat a meal and tell your firnd if u liked it (without beeing a cook) are you saying only the best guitarists should voice theyr opinions ? everyone else dosent have to right to a voice ?
quote:
Do negative votes help flamenco I wonder
If i can convince 1 single member to buy Emilios Maya cd instead of Juan Martins then yes i feel I have really helped flamenco.
It dosent have to be negative i am giving him a fair vote off, alot fairer then what the magazine did, u can all vote him on top if that is your opinion.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
I would even say he is somewhere after 1000!!! jjjjjjjjjjjjj he can't be on 3
I think he is famous becase his books and tapes. I like some of his stuff but there are so many guiatrists in spain that are much better than him and they're not that famous.
Emilio Maya is far over Juan martin's level for my opinion and his album is one of my favorites. so I'm with you florian.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
I don't know 500 other flamenco guitarists - recorded or not - to compare him to. Sorry.
Me neither! Does anyone actually know roughly how many professional Flamenco guitarists there are out there? Quite a few, I'd guess but not lots by any means. And without hearing at least 500 I really couldn't vote. I think I've heard about 20 or 30 guitarists, and whilst Juan isn't the "best" of them (or even in the top 10), I'm sure if you took 500 of them you'd find plenty that are worse than him. At least JM can keep compas, and thats more than can be said for some!
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
I heard him play when I was a kid in the seventies and loved every moment. I don't really enjoy ranking my enjoyment. I would say that but he does not have the 'aire' of some players. He loves what he does though which often comes through in his playing.
He has also brought flamenco to a far wider audience than most players which is a feat in itself. I have never read his books but hear from this forum that they are full of solid advice for beginner to intermediate players.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to JBASHORUN)
Let me Help, just pick the ones u know, or tell me who on this list does he play better than ? this is a list of the guitarits i have cds off is not mentioning the ones i have on videos and dvds and the ones who dont have solo cds out.
Adam del Monte Adolfo Jimenez Agustin Carbonell Antonio Ruiz Kiko BOLA Cañizares Carlos Heredia Carlos Pinana Chicuelo Daniel Casares David Tavares Diego Del Morao El Viejin Enrique de Melchor Eric Vaarzon Morel Gerardo Nuñez Jason McGuire Javier Zamora Jeronimo Maya Jose Antonio Rodríguez Jose Deluna José Luis Monton José Manuel Roldán Juan Carlos Gomez Juan Carlos Romero Juan Carmona Juan Diego Juan Manuel Canizares Luis Winsberg Manolo Sanlucar Michio Miguel Angel Cortes Miguel de la Bastide Moraito Chico Niño de Pura Oscar Herrero Paco de Lucía Paco Pena Losadas Paco Serrano Pedro Sierra Pepe Habichuela Pepe Justicia Pepe Luis Carmona "Habichuela" Quique Paredes Rafael Riqueni Ramon Jimenez Tino Van Der Sman Tito Alcado Tomatito Vicente Amigo Victor Monge Serranito Jesus De Rosario Paco Jarana David Conoduelle Pedro Javier González Paco Cortes Adrian Elissen Ricardo Grisha Todk
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
uhmmmm....did i miss somthing? Thats what i mentioned in another post...differently from other musicians i met, guitarists tend to revert music into some sort of contest. "Better"? How do you decide who is better? By speed of picado? Number of released CD's?
For me, one of the top guitarists is Manuel from Lole y Manuel. All he does is play with his thumb but that is so great that i would drop several technically improved guitarists for him anytime, because its not fast picados or technical fireworks that make you a great guitarist but the swing, the feeling that your music transports. Great guitarists do this effortlessly, and simple and basic stuff with the right swing is by magnitudes more enjoyable than super duper complicated pseudo "modern" stuff that makes no sense but to show off the artists' technique. If Martin manages to create the spark within his audience, i dont know why he should not be considered a good musician.
But setting up a ranking? Like ATP? Or do we shoot it out in champions league mode? Not a good idea imho 8^)
Tell me, why do guitarists want to feel "better" than others, i don't get it!
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to PacoPaella)
Paco
quote:
A celebrated virtuoso of the flamenco guitar who has been voted into the top three guitarists in the world by US magazine Guitar Player, Juan Martín is a native of Andalucía, where he still has a home in Málaga. He spends much time on tour and in London where he has formed an international company, Flamencovision, for the promotion of high quality flamenco which he rehearses and brings direct from Andalucía
Every webpage Juan has on the net starts with this :-)
What he can say hes the best or endourse it but I cant conduct my own research on how people feel about it ?
If hes got no problem calling himself the best, I got no problem calling him one of the weakest Pro today.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
It's very sad reading this after I organized his concert last week. The standing ovations said it clearly that if he's not one of the greatest flamenco guitarists in the world, he is a great musician for sure. Only for this I'd rank him higher than many flamenco guitarists, who just produce lots of notes, which say nothing much to me. What he did with moorish music in Musica Alhambra was awesome, 3000 Iranians came to meet him at the airport. It's a shame some of you rank him so low, he brought so much flamenco to the whole world (both with his tours to distant countries and his awesome methods and hard work he put into this - most of the people still don't pay him for it, but download it from the internet and then rank him so low). Moreover, the great Paco de Lucia takes 70000 EURO for his concert (in 2001 he took 15000 EURO), while tickets to Juan concert cost sometimes even 10 dollars - everyone can afford it and hear some flamenco. It is indeed the music of the poor people, isn't it? What's interesting, big flamenco stars are usually amplified, Juan doesn't need it. Someone has already said it on the forum.
I guess some of you rank him so low, because of this note - "one of the top 3 guitarists in the world". Wouldn't any of you guitarists mention of it in your review, if you were voted so high in Guitar Player? It's just a promotion, nothing bad, isn't it?
Actually, I'm interested what do you think is wrong with his playing? Don't you like his tarantas or rondenas? I think they're great. Moreover, even the moorish music struck the audience here in Poland. He has great compas, flamenco power of playing, nice melodic falsetas (almost all are pure his own compositions), great old-school eamieami rasgueado, etc.
Maybe answering my question would be better than making laugh of a guitarist who did so much to propagate flamenco all over the world?
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to tluczek)
tluczek i hear you, and i undersand hat u are saying, its tough and he has helped alot, and that is why rather than me just saying I dont like his music i gave everyone a chance to say and vote.
Is there any guitarist on my list that u think Juan plays better than ? or has batter music than ?
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
grisha, for his non-flamenco pullovers vicente, for his teenager look and jazzy pieces (his flamenco pieces are great) which makes him an idol for teenage flamenco girl fans ;) It's a background music for me.
Seriously, it's hard for me to compare most of them, because e.g. riqueni and amigo play just different music. I'm sure that most from this list don't play Tarantas and Rondenas as well as Juan. Tell me, what don't you like in these pieces. What about his Zambra?
Even Paco learnt some rasgueado techniques from Juan - I guess it was his fast eamieami - it has its charm and its very effective - who can play it so smooth as Juan from your list?
I mean these are just different things that differ, maybe it's a matter of taste. Many people say Diego del Gastor playes like a beginner, but I recently have preferred to listen to his recordings than even Paco's or Vicente's. I guess it's sometimes better to put 1/10th notes less but be more precise and concentrate on a feeling and expressing emotions. Many Juan's pieces contains it (aforementioned Tarantas, Rondenas), and it gives me more plaesure to listen to it than most of the stuff of tomatito or vicente.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
the problem is too many flamencos think he plays on his concerts like on the method DVD's :) But what I can advice is to listen to his Tarantas and Rondenas before voting :)
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
I wouldnt go to a Juan Martin concert even if u gave me a free ticket, to tell u the truth i didnt even bother looking at the rumba video on the other thread. But i will admit to using his first instructional book when i started learning flamenco, and it was very helpful so for that i can honestly say he has helped me. But i do remember him saying in the book somewhere 'these are my original falsetas' and it was just plain bull#@%*, it was just a very common traditional falseta that other guitarists had done before him. Hes a better businessman than he is guitarist, theres no question about that. His cds do though, make very good drink coasters.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to tluczek)
quote:
Many Juan's pieces contains it (aforementioned Tarantas, Rondenas), and it gives me more plaesure to listen to it than most of the stuff of tomatito or vicente.
o.k i put two and two together , tlucek are you Juan Martin just using an alias?
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
If not for Juan Martin I wouldn't be here. I played every piece from his method before I started to learn Sabicas and Paco. His method helped me a lot. People, you are too tough on him, come on. While he may not be a top 3 guitarist (who really is these crazy days? I would have to think before giving the answer) he is definitely flamenco and his simplicity has charm.
I will not vote because I am not familiar with everything aforementioned guitarists have done or can do.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
Who cares what he says on his website about some kind of ranking??? It's hardly an inflammatory comment is it? I'm not a lover of his music, but I do really respect what he has done through his methods and general promotion of the music. I get fed up of seeing him bashed, he's a soft target, and it's boring. Now a poll!! Guitarists and lists/polls/classifications.....the pastimes of spotty teenagers. Too much negativity.
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Guest)
Hmmm.. I didn't notice, he mentioned e.g. that he uses Diego del Gastor's falsetas and always says about any influences of his compositions. What he plays at the concert is in 99% his own compositions, and if some are not, he tells about it - that's what he did at the concert in Poznan.
Posts: 15242
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Florian)
Hmm, who cares? Guitar Player is known for its popularity poll contest. That is all that is meant in his bio. He is one of top 3 most well known flamenco guitarist of Readers of English language guitar mags. Ottmar, Juan, Pack-oh-day-loocheeah. Not a big deal, he is not boasting unfairly if it is the truth.
Some folks learned from him, great. Grisha admits to learning from his vid, as do many others. By the time I saw his vid, I had already studied a lot on my own. My first impression was that he did not have the same playing level as the players I was into. His timing is not "perfect", which is a whole can of worms. The stuff he teaches is sincere and he believes it is helpful, and indead it can be. I have same opinion of other flamenco "methods", players like Koster, graf martinez (although he is pretty even when strumming), juan serrano (although when he was young he was really tight player). But nothing wrong with the way they teach, and they have a right to brag about themselves like anyone else.
The players on Florians list (that I have heard), for the most part are advanced with perfect tempo, playing sounds natural and controlled. The things I hear wrong with my own playing I hear in non spanish flamenco players. It is about the tempo mainly, how it is controlled. Tino Van Dersmann is one of the few that I can't tell by the sound he was not born in Spain. I can't say he is one of my FAVORITE players, but I understand why some would say Juan Martin may not have been born in Spain.
I hear players like Paco, manolo, tomatito, vicente, gerardo, etc. at the same level interms of this stuff. Perfect tempo, very natural. That is how I personally judge musician's playing level. The greats in other musical genres for me personally, exhibit the same qualities. A lot of people I talk to don't notice what I am talking about, or at least to the degree I am talking about. No need for me to like or not like a players compositions to place him in the "best" category. I have a different type of category for that called "favorites".
So Martin?, not my favorite, not the best, but I am not voting.
quote:
Even Paco learnt some rasgueado techniques from Juan - I guess it was his fast eamieami - it has its charm and its very effective -
RE: IS JUAN MARTIN IN THE TOP ?? VOTE (in reply to Guest)
quote:
His cds do though, make very good drink coasters.
Dominic, even if he's not your favourite flamenco player, you shouldn't be so rude telling such things. Whatever you will say about his flamenco'ness - for me he's for sure not only a great flamenco, but also a great musician and composer - many non-flamencos love his melodic themes (e.g. Tama Helena, Arlequin), so even if they are not flamenco enough for you, you shouldn't call his records drink coasters.
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread