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Posts: 141
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China
I have difficult with accompanying B...
I am learning Bulerias accompanyment these days. I have watched many performances and I found that guitar players will play more 3 beats sometimes. I want to know how they do that and I also want some advices for accompanying Letras
Posts: 15469
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to hxwhf72752003)
quote:
ORIGINAL: hxwhf72752003
I am learning Bulerias accompanyment these days. I have watched many performances and I found that guitar players will play more 3 beats sometimes. I want to know how they do that and I also want some advices for accompanying Letras
Here, this whole thread is long but what you need.
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to hxwhf72752003)
quote:
I want to know how they do that and I also want some advices for accompanying Letras
You are noticing the medio compas. Best (only) way is to learn by doing. If there are no cantaores to help you learn in real life, then next option is to choose a recorded letra. Record yourself accompanying and upload it on the thread Ricardo linked. Then you can get feedback.
These days we have the baby step where you can use moises.ai to remove the guitar from any recording. Then record your version, but you have the advantage of being able to hear what the original guitarist did.
Posts: 1968
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to orsonw)
HAHA yeah I'm taking the baby steps con moises. No cantaores in sight, and even if there were, I don't have the time to hang out. I don't see how you can possibly do it without hearing another guitarist(s) before you internalize at least the standard melodies, as well as the traditional way of playing for them.
quote:
ORIGINAL: orsonw
quote:
I want to know how they do that and I also want some advices for accompanying Letras
You are noticing the medio compas. Best (only) way is to learn by doing. If there are no cantaores to help you learn in real life, then next option is to choose a recorded letra. Record yourself accompanying and upload it on the thread Ricardo linked. Then you can get feedback.
These days we have the baby step where you can use moises.ai to remove the guitar from any recording. Then record your version, but you have the advantage of being able to hear what the original guitarist did.
Posts: 15469
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Mark2)
On the contrary, you can listen to the maestros accompanying all load of singers you want. It will not teach YOU how to subjectively achieve that level of understanding. One must “sit in that chair” in order to properly learn. Learn by screwing up A LOT, at first. Sabicas admitted, at some point, to learning accompaniments as a kid from copying Ramon Montoya’s accompaniments. When he first played for singers that did the same cante’s he played what he learned from Montoya, and it “worked”. But it was a bit of luck they did the same cantes and they thought he was a child genius (which he knew he was NOT.), being from freakin PAMPLONA, of all places (ie not Andalucia). Same happened to me many times in my career, I just so happened to have known that recording, etc.
Sabicas at some point late in his career admitted (Thanks Richard Jernagin that tracked this quote down from Cynthia Gooding), it was not until 20 years into it that he actually understood what was going on with the cante, unlike when he was a kid copying the record. I am going on 30 years since my first time sitting with a cantaor, and still trying to get it right.
So erase those guitar tracks and start gluing the ear to the melodies of the cante….assuming you can play compás patterns correctly already.
Posts: 1968
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Ricardo)
Oh I get it. I understand that copying guitarists isn’t going to get me to the position of being able to accompany on the fly. And I do erase the guitar and am listening to the cante alone. It’s something I’ve never spent a lot of time doing because it had no practical application for me in the work I was doing. But I’m a hobbyist now so I can do whatever I want. And it’s this haha. I’m making progress i think.
Posts: 141
Joined: Mar. 19 2024
From: Hunan, China
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to orsonw)
I used to try this way. But I use a untraditional singer's Letra whose name is Juanfra. It was so difficult I will try this way again. Thank you orsonw
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
start gluing the ear to the melodies of the cante
Perhaps we can make studying a buleria cante melody a foro project/challenge, for anyone who wants to join in? We can try to get some life back into the accompaniment thread.
Ricardo could you recommend a good examplar buleria Jerez to study? We had Cepillo in the past, but nowadays could be any youtube video/recording as we can take the guitar off it.
Posts: 15469
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to hxwhf72752003)
quote:
ORIGINAL: hxwhf72752003
That is so long I will read it. Thank you for your help, Ricardo
I linked straight to examples of buleria where I demo square and half compas over the same letras. the letras minus guitar are linked to page 1. Start with only those TWO POSTS. Later as you get a hang of buleria you can go through the table of contents on Page 1 and decide what you want to focus on and jump to it. No need to read all.
Posts: 15469
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to orsonw)
quote:
Ricardo could you recommend a good examplar buleria Jerez to study?
Well, buleria is just fast solea, from melodic and formal standpoint, so Norman’s solea and Buleria classification examples on canteytoque.es, has all the standards. For example on Zambo’s album with Moraito Gloria Bendita, it is like 90% buleria corta, that’s it. A few times I will encounter proper solea style sung fast (most often the 3 line verse styles such as Frijones 2, or Joaquin 2, etc.)
The major key ones I have seen, in old times called “pregones”, but there is also the Solea style “carapiera” that goes to major. “Jerez anonymous” solea is infact the Buleria extremeño aka, “Jaleo”, etc.
Beyond that, there are the cuple which can be all sorts of imported melodies such as those Mexican songs of Paquera or Camaron (Huapangos etc.). Once you hear some version they are all quite similar. Then there are minor key bolero type songs where you have to kind of know the song and its simple chords, and keeping compas is the only really hard thing you are doing. I think Pitingo Compromiso is a good example, or Lole y Manuel stuff like you see in the flamenco movie.
I don’t honestly feel “cuple” is the thing to study though, it is really about getting used to all that family of Solea and apply it to the faster rhythm. Also the Fandango por Solea such as by currilla (it was a thing in Alcala where Solea was so important compas wise they sing fandangos over top), or Vallejo etc. Those are fun because you know the chords and again it is about compas adherence. Speed up to buleria tempo the same thing can happen. Chano Lobato did a cool one with Juan Habichuela, and the bootleg audio of buleria with Paco, has a fandango closer.
Anyway the real study as I said is the classification going on for Solea on Norman’s site.
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Ricardo)
Soleás and also bulerías por soleá. The bulería corta, as you say, is by far the most common, but I remember coming across the other styles, too, like one or both the styles attributed to María la Moreno.
This is a good time to point out that Manuel Morao told me they never used to call it bulería corta. I responded by asking what they called it, and he didn't have an answer, so I think it's fine to use that name, although it may be a more modern convention.
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to hxwhf72752003)
In addition to the solid corpus of soleás and bulerías por soleá that are sung por bulerías, there’s a nucleus of cantes festeros that seem to come from Cádiz and, to a lesser extent, from Jerez. They’re generally in the major-key “fiesta” style (A and E, going to D for the resolution, for example). Everyone has heard them sung by the Zambos, Macanita and others, although I think they’re more closely related to dancing. The kind of dancing where an old woman jumps up with a gleam in her eye, hikes up her skirt and ends up waggling her big old butt, much to the delight of locals and the consternation of foreigners. Good, clean fun that makes any outsider reassess his/her ideas of aesthetics.
The best artists in these cantes festeros are inevitably from Cádiz and outlying towns, including Jerez. When you get to Seville, they’re more likely to sing cuplé. Camarón and Rancapino are good, modern examples of Cádiz-bay exponents. A little further back in time: la Perla, Alfonso de Gaspar and even Aurelio Sellés, all from Cádiz, and, in nearby towns, Orillito in Chiclana, and María Vargas, la Sallago and others in Sanlúcar.
Looking inland, Jerez deserves special mention in this category, as tío Mingo Rubichi (father of singer Diego and grandfather of guitarist Domingo) is credited with creating several important cantes in this style that are still sung today. Manuel Morao, in his ghost-written autobiography, acknowledged the importance of tío Mingo, which says a lot. They say that tío Mingo (which is short for Domingo) had an exceptionally strong voice that could be heard several blocks away. He’s known to be the author of a good number of these cantes festeros, although his grandson Domingo says it’s hard to say if other, classic ones were his grandfather’s or if they came from Cádiz. Agujetas Viejo was tío Mingo’s brother and José el Chalao was his step-brother (this trio is the fountainhead of the Agujetas, Rubichi and Chalao clans). Agujetas viejo and his son Manuel recorded some of tío Mingo’s cantes, as did Garbanzo de Jerez (brother of Alfonso Carpio, who’s at the head of the Mijita clan). The aforementioned families, the Moneos, Negro del Puerto and the Chaqueta clan have common ancestors.
Further inland, Seville also deserves special mention: Pastora Pavón “Niña de los Peines” was among the all-time best singers of bulerías, as was Manuel Vallejo (grudgingly acknowledged by Mairena in Mundo y Formas), although they sang fewer of these cantes festeros and tended more toward straight bulerías and cuplés. Some of those cuplés are truly great: “Todo el mundo nos separa” (Bernarda de Utrera), “Cuando se entere el sultán” (Fernanda de Utrera) “Tres puñales” (Gaspar de Utrera), “Te doy más que me pides” (a very long one, like a romance, written by Enrique Montoya and recorded by Perrate de Utrera, Camarón and others), etc. However, as cuplés, they’re relegated to second-class status by gypsy singers in Jerez and maybe in Cádiz, too.
So, let’s identify some of these cantes festeros that are so closely associated with the province of Cádiz. I’ve put in parentheses the names of some of the artists who’ve recorded each example in audio and/or online video. The ones associated with Jerez are at the end. Notice that some of the letras have six-syllable verses.
The most popular, by a country (or nautical) mile, is this one:
(la Paquera, Terremoto, Macanita, los Zambo and many more artists) Mi amante es pajarero me trajo un loro con las alas doradas y el pico de oro
That same cante is sung with other letras, sometimes with small variations:
(el Gloria, los Zambo and others) Dormía un jardinero a pierna suelta dormía y se dejaba vaya que sí la puerta abierta hasta que un día le robaron la rosa que más quería
(el Gloria, los Zambo and others) Al atravesar un barranco dijo un negro con afán: Dios mío quién fuera blanco aunque fuera catalán
(Terremoto, los Zambo and others) Esta noche me mudo me llevo un chisme la caldera me llevo aunque me tizne
Another of these cantes festeros, one of my favorites, is this one attributed to Rancapino’s grandmother la Obispa. It ends with a reference to Fernando Poo (pronounced “POH-oh”), the former name of Bioko, an island off the coast of Africa. In very old newspapers, they used to publish the timetables of departing ships under a large heading that read: “Para Fernando Poo.”
(la Perla, her husband Curro la Gamba, Rancapino, María Vargas and others) Páseme usted el Estrecho que lo mando yo en una barquillita para Fernado Poo
Another one. The letra is really weird. Fernando de la Morena’s “cartapausia” may have originally been “cataplexia” or some other medical condition. I’ve heard at least one other version, sung by a woman I think, but I’m not sure who.
(Fernando de la Morena, Camarón with another letra, and other artists) Tú eres negra y cartapausia también quieres un quitasol tú dices que no venías porque no tienes dolor
Now, on to two of the many cantes that are associated with Jerez and tío Mingo Rubichi.
This one is also sung with a delightfully weird letra. It tells the story of trespassers or maybe thieves in a pear orchard being caught by the owner who is alerted to their presence because they’re noisily cracking open walnuts and eating them. I think the following examples are all the same cante, although each has distinctive details. If someone wants to provide links, maybe we'll see they're not all the same.
(Agujetas viejo, el Garbanzo de Jerez, los Moneo) Al ruido de las nueces vino el tío del peral después que me quitó las nueces encima me quiso pegar
(Manuel Agujetas recorded this variation with the “yay que yay”) Y al ruido de las nueces salió el tío del peral con el yay que yay con el yay que ya encima quitarme las peras encima me quiso pegar con el yay que yay con el yay que yay con el yay que ya
(el Garbanzo de Jerez often sang the same cante with this letra) Este borreguito dime niña quién te lo dio no me lo ha dadito nadie dinerito me costó para que vaya andando para que vaya lo voy a endiñar
El Garbanzo also recorded the same cante with this letra. I know the words in the last line of verse only because I overheard someone ask Domingo Rubichi to decipher them. In el Garbanzo's version, it sounds like he sings “del colmenar” instead of "de gobernar." Although the latter is a better fit as a reference to politicians and civil servants, it appears that the jury’s still out on that one. “Cuellos tiesos” are those old-fashioned detachable collars. This version of the letra was recorded by Manuel Agujetas with Manolo Sanlúcar.
Por eso y por eso la gente de gobernar prima gastaba los cuellos tiesos gastan los cuellos tan tiesos gastan los gastan los cuellos tiesos gastan los...
El Garbanzo also sang the same cante with a letra that starts with “Realito.” I don’t understand the rest. The Moneos recorded it, too.
Another of these cantes festeros attributed to tío Mingo is this one, which many, many artists have recorded. It’s kept short and is used like a juguetillo to connect cantes or to conclude a series of them.
(el Garbanzo de Jerez) Ahí viene el Pepe con el carbón carbón de caña lo vendo yo
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)
Thank you Norman and Ricardo. I'm currently away working with limited Internet access. When I'm back I'm going to dive into this. I already learnt from you that bulerias is often solea faster. But I have yet to carefully study this, I've been focused on solea cante melodies when por solea. To start I will try to identify solea in some well known bulerias performances e.g. Paquera, Terremoto, Pastora or La Perla. Any particular/commonly used solea melodies/forms I should look out for? Or is the answer to that what Ricardo just wrote, i.e. cante is going to be mainly buleria corta and if solea it's likely the 3 line solea e.g. Frijones 2 Joaquin 2. Might have to book a lesson with you Ricardo when I'm back.
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to orsonw)
quote:
Any particular/commonly used solea melodies/forms I should look out for?
I don’t know offhand of any particular styles or even artists or recordings in which it's more common. It just happens, and not infrequently. That said, we're talking about bulerías, not soleás, so I guess a bulerías anthology, especially an older one, will probably have an example or three.
An example of Cojo de Málaga buleria-izing the bulería corta. It’s not a clear study example because of the way he sang and because it’s so old (1921). The first verse is “Puñaladitas le den.” http://canteytoque.es/IImayor.htm#bulsol
Four examples here: two of the bulería corta and two of the larga. Look for “el mismo cante por bulerías.” http://canteytoque.es/bulsol.htm
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)
Thanks Norman. So for a good place to begin I should get familiar with buleria corta. And also look out for possible three line solea form. And then there are the festeros. The cuple last. Often when I am playing for amateur singers they want to do cuple. Then I feel that I am playing for a song not a cante.
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to orsonw)
Hi Orson,
If your goal is to accompany singers, I recommend studying Camarón and other artists who most singers are likely to copy. My post is just a description of some cantes that I like and that form a peculiar group. Of the five cantes, the first is the only one that’s sung relatively often nowadays, and even so, my guess is that it’s not often sung outside the province of Cádiz. In my opinion, studying Camarón and cuplés are your best bets for preparing yourself to accompany singers. Take note of what they like and learn that material. Of course, if your goal is just to have fun at home, or if you want to accompany singers in the province of Cádiz, you can disregard this advice.
Honestly, I don’t think the soleá-based bulerías pose any special problem or even require any forethought, because if you’re familiar with soleá melodies, you’ll quickly get your bearings if a singer sings one por bulería. Cuplés are a lot harder to accompany, mostly because the melodies are unfamiliar to us. Some singers I’ve known liked to sing the cuplé “Te doy más que me pides,” and I had to refuse to accompany that more than once. On one occasion, in Madrid I think, we were discussing what to play, and I asked the singer to do something else. On another occasion, in Cádiz capital, a singer launched into that one to get things started at a party (first song), and I just stopped playing because I didn’t like him. No regrets, but it would have been better if I’d known how to accompany it. Camarón sings it on that live recording in Paris. The track title is Pañuelo a rayas 2. Another popular cuplé por bulería is "Era trianera y se llamaba Carmen."
Posts: 15469
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)
Fabulous informative post norman, thank you!
Two things to add to it, the “Pregones” was the title to one of the major key melodies done often (Vallejo called it this, but others as well reference these that way). We hear what at first sounds like tonic mixolydian (A7 arpegio), as the minor 7th is reached at the start, but the decent calls in the Dominant from major (E7) and the conclusion is like the Soleá in major called Carapiera. Chicuelo and Duquende do an interesting version where He uses F#7 instead, resolving to Bm before the E7 which matches the melody perfectly. Couple of singers I snuck that in and they really liked it.
The Letra at 2:13:
Duquende and Chicuelo at 2:10
the other is the “Romance” that is often used por bulería as a conclusion in dance very often, I finally after many years of familiarity came across (thanks to Morante for getting me into her) an isolated version being called “Gilliana”. The relation to Soleá is quite obvious of course. However, where you expect the “cambio” to C major (or F) to happen, it doesn’t, so I am always careful on this one.
Posts: 15469
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)
Also, almost forgot about this collection on the site. I know this as the Soleá macho, and I totally missed the connection to the fast buleria version (which simply made me think it was a different melody, but of course it is the same but faster). This style came up in my personal research in a big way, regarding the way it (as a separate entity with a different formal structure) connects to the 4 line verse (inicio styles) Soleá. Long story short, there is a historical reason for the sequence in this case (the two forms function together).
But Norman’s excellent study really shows how important this one cante is for both Soleá and Bulerías. It is interesting how the speed of a melody can totally change its character to make seem like it is different or unrelated.
In case it is of interest, my subjective view is that there are in this list, “corrupted” versions, having to do with perhaps interpretive melodic alterations and lyric delivery. But there are those that cut through crystal clear, having been preserved (shockingly from my perspective) practically note for note, to the source (a medieval song dating early 1400s!). To orient the ear to what I am on about, I will point out via the order listed:
Cepero, dead on. Marchena 3, or the third example, not the others (as it states “the classic way”, is dead dead on to the source). Manolo to de Maria..only ONE note is “wrong” to the source. Fernanda, she does a different thing the very first line, but gets on track the 2nd line onward. Canaleja, He repeats the first line in a unique way, however, he gets on track from the 3rd delivered line onward.
Bulerias examples:
Vallejo examples 2,3, and 4 are dead on. Canaleja, the 3rd example (though, this one starts off good and is “corrupted” by the way the verses are delivered.)
If anybody takes some time to focus their ear on the specific thing I reference in these 9 examples (meaning you can hear that they are similar to each other in a specific note by note way, versus the other examples), and AGREES with me that they can differentiate (I know ALL the examples might be very much the same to a lot of people), I would be willing to share PRIVATELY the medieval source, understanding it is for “your ears only”….I still am digging and hope to one day CAREFULLY present my findings publicly, as they are very serious and sensitive to me.
RE: I have difficult with accompanyi... (in reply to Ricardo)
Thank you Ricardo and Norman for sharing your valuable knowledge and opinion. You have given me some great direction for listening and studying. This will keep me occupied for quite some time.
Printable Version
I will read it. Thank you for your help, Ricardo
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