SOMEBODY HELP

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SOMEBODY HELP

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metalhead

Posts: 152
Joined: Apr. 15 2023

SOMEBODY HELP

ME WITH PICADO

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2024 15:41:39

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

no!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2024 17:11:54

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

Only joking. What's the problem? And what's your current picado like?

Don't wanna give you advice if your picado is better than mine! 😅

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2024 17:13:35

RobF

Posts: 1621
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

I think Norman posted a pretty good recipe for that in the Off-Topic section.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2024 3:03:09

Norman Paul Kliman

Posts: 98
Joined: Dec. 5 2023

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

quote:

no!

He knows what he did.

quote:

I think Norman posted a pretty good recipe for that in the Off-Topic section.

That’ll work. If not, watch how others are doing it, and try these exercises for a few weeks:

http://canteytoque.es/pmiexc.htm#picado

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2024 13:02:14

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Norman Paul Kliman)

Yeah exercises. For a good few weeks. every day. Even only 10/20 mins
Choose some exercises you like and can manage. And some string crossing ones.

Also make sure your nails are shaped like Ricardo says!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2024 14:14:44

Ricardo

Posts: 15049
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

Staccato...put a "little blade of silence" between the notes when playing medium speed. Like 8th note become 16ths with a rest between each one. This to be done with the RH alternation, ie, you stop the ringing pitch with the next finger planting.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2024 18:22:26

JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

Summoning Devilhand, can you help this person please?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 2:40:25

AndresK

Posts: 334
Joined: Jan. 4 2019
From: Patras, Greece

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 7:01:42

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Summoning Devilhand, can you help this person please?

🌪🧞

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 10:04:44

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

Had a thought recently, since my picado has improved. I've often heard and seen written that picado isn't important, not necessary to accompany, etc blah blah. But honestly I think that's true but lame. Having a picado that is at least kinda fast and clean is really great.

makes one feel like a half decent player, makes other techniques feel much easier too. I suppose picado training makes your fingers strong and dexterous which transfers over to other techs. My point is don't neglect it. Don't accept the excuses. Work on it. It's worth it

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 11:53:42

silddx

Posts: 651
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

https://www.melbay.com/Products/31105EB/flamenco-scalathon.aspx

Great book.

_____________________________

Estar sano. Más guitarra.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 13:23:24

Ricardo

Posts: 15049
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

Had a thought recently, since my picado has improved. I've often heard and seen written that picado isn't important, not necessary to accompany, etc blah blah. But honestly I think that's true but lame. Having a picado that is at least kinda fast and clean is really great. makes one feel like a half decent player, makes other techniques feel much easier too. I suppose picado training makes your fingers strong and dexterous which transfers over to other techs. My point is don't neglect it. Don't accept the excuses. Work on it. It's worth it

Some of the very first material I had to learn for dance classes I played for were sevillanas melodies that are played picado. Then if you need any type of fandango or Alegrias tempo falseta that uses picado you had better have it together. Then there is the Farruca traditional footwork thing. I think in the world of dance there is a lower limit to what you can functionally get away with (maybe 4 per click at 150 or so?). If your goal is to play ONLY for cante or in your bedroom, you don’t need it at all.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 16:32:50

orsonw

Posts: 1973
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

I think in the world of dance there is a lower limit to what you can functionally get away with (maybe 4 per click at 150 or so?)

The main reason I practice picado is to use it por baile.
To me picado feels great por baile, but I can only use it at slow tempos. I know how effective a 150/160 bpm 4 per click picado could be at the right moment por baile. That's what keeps me coming back and working at it.

Getting a real world useable 150/160bpm for tangos/alegrias is the dream!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 16:51:12

JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to orsonw)

Do you guys ever notice some days you can hit your speed wall/limit and then others you can even quite get to that target speed? That is incredibly frustrating. Maybe it is just slight nail variances, mood, humidity etc. But I might work on a passage for a solid month everyday and see zero net speed gains.

Maybe that’s a sign that I’m trying to push my limits too far and need to dial the tempo back

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 28 2024 17:44:06

devilhand

Posts: 1660
Joined: Oct. 15 2019

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

Start practicig picado asap. Mastering picado is a long ass journey.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2024 17:57:04

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to devilhand)

.... you didn't disappoint!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2024 19:28:28

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

But I might work on a passage for a solid month everyday and see zero net speed gains.

Maybe that’s a sign that I’m trying to push my limits too far and need to dial the tempo back

I felt like this until recently switching nail shape. Did I mention its changed my life!?

feel like a born again Christian. Can't stop talking about it! Haha.

Been practicing some chicuelo cantinas picados for years and never improving until changing nails. Massive leap in speed and control.

Even since the initial revelations I feel my speed has increased a few more times even without major practice. Definitely some practice though.

Guessing ill hit a wall soon at the level. Then I'll have to drill hard.

Considered your nail shape at all Jason? See! Like jehovahs witness! Pushing the good word of nail shape Jesus on everyone!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 29 2024 19:33:57

machopicasso

Posts: 989
Joined: Nov. 27 2010

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Do you guys ever notice some days you can hit your speed wall/limit and then others you can even quite get to that target speed?

You might see if the occasional under-performance corresponds to some other activity you're doing. For example, I lift weights in a gym, and when I train certain muscle groups (esp. shoulders), it fatigues muscles I use for playing guitar later that day, and I notice that, say, my tremolo speed is just a tad slower.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2024 4:19:38

JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

quote:

Considered your nail shape at all Jason? See! Like jehovahs witness! Pushing the good word of nail shape Jesus on everyone!

Do tell me the good word, Father. What tis this holy nail shape thy speakith?

Actually, your right. I think nails could explain it. My ramp might not be right for the angle of attack, or nail gets slightly long.

I remember you posted a clip of Chicuelo Cantina, I thought your picado sounded pretty good and that was a long time ago.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2024 15:32:11

Mark2

Posts: 1909
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to orsonw)

Right there with you. At this point it would be unrealistic to believe it's ever going to happen for me, but that doesn't mean I'm giving up fighting the windmill.

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw
Getting a real world useable 150/160bpm for tangos/alegrias is the dream!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2024 16:31:52

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

quote:

Do tell me the good word, Father. What tis this holy nail shape thy speakith

Hey funny you mention that. My wife posted that old clip on fb the other day. And said to me.... hey look at the clip from (9 years??) Ages ago. Don't think its much different to how you play now! 😂 Jesus I hope she's wrong.

I plan to re record that soon and compare the two.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2024 16:56:56

orsonw

Posts: 1973
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

quote:

I plan to re record that soon and compare the two.

How about an informal foro picado challenge?
Can you post a tab or video of the Chicuelo cantinas picado? I'll give it a go. It won't be 150bpm though.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 30 2024 19:58:51

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to orsonw)

Hey orson. I'm keen.
The chicuelo picado is the one on his encuentro cantinas.
There are two in that piece.

The one I think we are talking about is from the end of the intro.

The second one is at the end of the first falseta. (I'm better at paying that picado. Less ligados)

Could do either for a challenge.

I'll try and find it and post later

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2024 11:04:15

johnnefastis

Posts: 633
Joined: Jan. 10 2012

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to metalhead)

I would be up for this too... I think I recorded this for the Cantiñas challenge many moons ago. Would be interested to see if I can get it faster.

Cheers

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2024 11:25:23

JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to johnnefastis)

Konstantin posted the tab in this thread

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=324433&tmode=10&smode=1&p=43

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2024 15:18:49

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

Hey Jason, that is the second picado in the piece. The longer run. I think the vid you mention I play the picado at the end of the intro section. Shorter and with many ligados. It also has two instances on NON alternating I,m.
Think it's tabbed as I,I. Once and m,m once. In encuentro. I never learned it that way and still struggle. Maybe it's just a really hard run with the ligados and doing it all alternating. ??

(I think I posted a question regarding the non alternating picado in that run, prior to that thread you linked. )

Like I say... I've been battling these runs for years! 😄

It's definitely easier when I put the hammer ons in different places. Just never worked out the optimum

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 31 2024 20:19:34

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

Was gonna aplogise for hijacking this thread with a potential challenge.....
But metalhead hasn't come back to see what responses his CAPS letters post has received....

Metal head? Has this helped?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 1 2024 21:31:44

JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to Stu)

Ohhh, you did say it was the picado at the end of the intro, Stu. Honestly forgot there even was picado at the intro. Looking at it again I can see how it is tricky with the descend-ascend-descend, but at least there are no weird crossings. The ascend brakes the momentum.

Metalhead really invested a lot into this thread - just to walk away!! All of 2 words

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 2 2024 19:42:39

Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: SOMEBODY HELP (in reply to JasonM)

Haha yeah. Maybe he'll return with an awesome recording of this chicuelo picado.

Honestly, I've had small practice last day or so. There's something particularly nasty about this run. I just can't seem to get it remotely quicker than I ever have. Even with my swanky new nails and improving picado on more regular runs.

I'm gonna try and do it like the encuentro transcription says with the ii and mm.

Sorry, I mispoke. its two instances of i followed by i

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jun. 3 2024 11:04:02