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One small difference when you play my version is you don’t slur on the fourth string, as indicated in the score. Not that it’s a necessary detail, although once you add slurs to the mechanism, it quickly turns into something else.
Right, I sort of did it deliberately so each note comes out articulated in that slow version, but you are right that it is different with the slur. I played around with it such that the fast final version I am doing only has the pull off (E-D). Anyway the score you provided is clear enough for everybody, I was just demonstrating what is easiest for me to do fast.
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
It sounds great and you’ve surprised me, although I’m getting less surprised at you surprising me, ha-ha.
On the subject of small details of guitar playing, I’m reminded of one of many conversations with David Serva. Playing devil’s advocate (feigning annoyance), he said small details don’t matter because they go by in a flash. A guitarist spends weeks working on something and nobody notices it.
I don’t know... Maybe after a certain point. There have always been guitarists’ guitarists, if you know what I mean.
Anyway, nicely done. I’m going to have a look at that pick-up note now.
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
Sorry, that WAS the tutorial. I guess you mean a slow note by note thing. Well, you can slow my slow version down and get it note by note I think.
I'll give it a go. I just thought since I had heard a portion of it previously on one of your videos you might have already done the pulgar section too.
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
I’ve been playing around with your arrangement of the mechanism, and I like it better without the pick-up note. Starting on beat 2.5 lessens the impact and doesn’t make it much easier for me. It takes less concentration, works more naturally and has more impact when I start on beat 3. While starting or ending or whatever on beat 2.5 isn't forbidden, it's a very unusual point in the compás to be using, and there should be a good reason for doing it.
Another thing that doesn’t make sense is where you got that idea in Morao’s playing. As far as I know, he never recorded that mechanism por bulería. He may have recorded it in other styles with very good results, but that isn’t a reason to use it in bulerías.
If it works for you, more power to you. Like I said above, quoting David, things go by in a flash, especially por bulería, and small details can go unnoticed.
I’ve been playing around with your arrangement of the mechanism, and I like it better without the pick-up note. Starting on beat 2.5 lessens the impact and doesn’t make it much easier for me. It takes less concentration, works more naturally and has more impact when I start on beat 3. While starting or ending or whatever on beat 2.5 isn't forbidden, it's a very unusual point in the compás to be using, and there should be a good reason for doing it.
Another thing that doesn’t make sense is where you got that idea in Morao’s playing. As far as I know, he never recorded that mechanism por bulería. He may have recorded it in other styles with very good results, but that isn’t a reason to use it in bulerías.
If it works for you, more power to you. Like I said above, quoting David, things go by in a flash, especially por bulería, and small details can go unnoticed.
Sorry if I was not real clear in the short video I made, but the main reason for my personal alteration (sorry it rubs you wrong that I changed it at all), is purely due to the TEMPO limitations. The double picked thumb stroke (C to Bb in your version) puts a big speed constraint for me….basically I would only be able to use this in relatively slow moving Bulería. If folks can develop that thumb accuracy at much higher tempos, more power to you guys. For me, I like to have devices (mechanisms) that will function at high or “normal” Bulería speeds that I won’t need to worry about. As for applying the ppi cross picking from Morao….well, even though I first learned it in Siguiríyas initially, he is going super fast with it, and translates it to Soleá, Fandango, Tientos, etc. The subdivided speeds in those other regimes (sometimes 16ths, or 24th notes) are analogous to what a normal up tempo bulerías would require as triplets….hence, since I was already comfortable with it, I know it would help me out in tackling this thing.
I felt I was clear enough that I simply CAN’T do it like you are doing it, at the speed I want to go. My faults alone. A while back I was teaching a student a Bulería de Cadiz guitar solo by Niño Ricardo. There are a couple falsetas that are neither cuadrao nor medio compás…he was simply crossing his phrasing, i.e., starting a phrase on count 1 that should have been on 10 for example. I had to make a decision in that moment to alter the original notes (ie “fix” the compás of the maestro) in order that the student had a functional version that would not raise eyebrows to anyone that knows better. As a flamenco student myself, I consider this an “artistic liberty” that we ALL are allowed, to some degree within reason.
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
I felt I was clear enough that I simply CAN’T do it like you are doing it, at the speed I want to go.
I don’t know, I think you got pretty close in that quickly prepared video. I've been working on it for a few years now (maybe three) and I'm starting to see clear progress. Frankly, I’d be surprised if you couldn’t do the same in a few months' time, but I also understand what you say about liking to have devices that will function at high or normal speeds without needing to worry about them. And of course, pros like you are playing a very different game from amateurs like me. It occurred to me the other day that every single time I sit down to play, my routine is to make mistakes for the first 20 or 30 minutes before the juices start flowing. The routine of you pros is to get it right from the start.
Here’s another thing I’m working on (occasionally) por bulerías:
Tap foot on 12-2-4-6-8-10 while doing contra palmas with hands.
So far, so good. I’ve been able to do that for at least 20 years. I think Fernanda’s “toma, que toma” jaleo was what helped me to feel contra.
But the other day I tried to add something to the foot-hand action:
Say “ba” on every beat (“ba-ba-ba” on 1-2-3, etc.)
Makes my mouth feel clumsy, like I’ve been to the dentist!
Posts: 15418
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
For flamenco/rumba, I just learned Manteca Colorá….so far I don’t have anybody to play it with. My friend in Switzerland sent a video working on it so I learned too.
At home I have mainly returned to my roots, as in I got my old electric guitar fixed and now I have two electric guitars, such that at random points during the day I can’t help but to grab one or the other and start shredding and riffing on the old metal tunes I did as a kid. It is so satisfying for some reason to come back to that 80’s rock aesthetic, like rediscovering some food you used to love but had not even tasted it in years. It took some time to work up the picking hand again, but I have it pretty good now. My go to stuff is Racer-X, Van Halen, Yngwie, Ozzy, Extreme, Maiden, Jason Becker, etc., but I worked up an arrangement of The Phantom by Chick Corea that Al Dimeola recorded at some point…it was an RTF reunion tune that just has some fun rhythmic melodies etc. I would love to incorporate the electric guitar in with my flamenco rumba/jazz fusion stuff… the challenge is to find a gig opportunity where we actually get paid and I can afford to convince other people to learn and practice something like this. I have a drummer and Jazz horn player already onboard and a bass player that can read anything. But we need to find the gig while I am still busy working doing normal flamenco and rumba gigs where this combo would not work.
And then there are a few Renaissance Vihuela pieces I had been working on in Rondeña tuning, one more like a Rondeña proper that I arrange by cherry picking phrases that are in that specific tonality, and then a full piece that is polyphonic set to Soleá compás (similar to when I did that Bach Chaconne to Jaleo compás). It is in B phrygian, very similar to grips Tomatito used in that Buleria Barrio Santiago. I have no intention of recording or performing any of it, however, for my own personal satisfaction I must admit how fun it is to realize a Josquin de Prez Flemish polyphonic kyrie into a little buleria falseta por Rondeña. That type of thing is really satisfying for some reason. Here was a recent post:
Thought I might share the gig last week where I have for the first time in like 30 years performed electric guitar. What helped was my buddy getting those electric drums so we could balance our live sound with the levels I use for flamenco guitar gigs. It worked out pretty well so hopefully more opportunities for this ensemble in the future. Here are two tunes from the show, Nuñez and Racer X:
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RE: What are you working on? (in reply to devilhand)
In the absence of my flamenco guitar I've decided to try an electric so I got one a few weeks ago and I am learning to play. It's a fun ride, I'm getting back my flamenco soon but I also hope to continue learning the electric one. Will see how it goes.
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
Here's Maria Moreno mixing in rock guitar with flamenco at an improvised performance this May (electric guitar at 00.42). Raúl Cantizano is the one that previously divided opinion with his 'prepared' flamenco guitar experimentation.
Here's Maria Moreno mixing in rock guitar with flamenco at an improvised performance this May (electric guitar at 00.42). Raúl Cantizano is the one that previously divided opinion with his 'prepared' flamenco guitar experimentation.
I assume competent artists degrade their show into theatrics because they feel like they can’t compete with the old school normal thing, and to do something “different” had better be VERY different since the good artists have already done that wacky Picasso experiment with no lasting meaning.
I dont’ understand what is wrong with doing the “Same old thing”, especially if it is very good. Like look at Journey and Toto 50 years tour….same famous songs. Iron Maiden wants to do new music and so they have to use smaller venues all of a sudden. When I went to see Manuela Carrasco I expected to see the same old Soleá she always does, and she delivered.
Posts: 1967
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to Ricardo)
I've seen that with dance companies in the US too. Trying to be different. It rarely works for me. Dancers are usually the leaders, and I'm sure they view the music they dance to much differently than guitarists.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo
I assume competent artists degrade their show into theatrics because they feel like they can’t compete with the old school normal thing, and to do something “different” had better be VERY different since the good artists have already done that wacky Picasso experiment with no lasting meaning.
I dont’ understand what is wrong with doing the “Same old thing”, especially if it is very good. Like look at Journey and Toto 50 years tour….same famous songs. Iron Maiden wants to do new music and so they have to use smaller venues all of a sudden. When I went to see Manuela Carrasco I expected to see the same old Soleá she always does, and she delivered.
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to devilhand)
Welcome to your senior years! The good news is you’ll soon be grumbling about all kinds of things.
Seriously now, I agree with you. Baby steps is what’s worked for a long time. Change a detail or two and leave the rest as it was.
Then again, Mairena said the old-timers didn’t like Manuel Torre back in the day because he changed and combined styles of siguiriyas, among other cantes, and he made everything sound new and different because of the way he used his voice. I suppose the same can be said of Camarón.
Here's Maria Moreno mixing in rock guitar with flamenco at an improvised performance this May (electric guitar at 00.42). Raúl Cantizano is the one that previously divided opinion with his 'prepared' flamenco guitar experimentation.
At 30:00 La Moneta dances to electric and flamenco guitar.
Here's Maria Moreno mixing in rock guitar with flamenco at an improvised performance this May (electric guitar at 00.42). Raúl Cantizano is the one that previously divided opinion with his 'prepared' flamenco guitar experimentation.
Wow, that is electric in many ways! I loved her dance.
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Posts: 15418
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: What are you working on? (in reply to devilhand)
quote:
ORIGINAL: devilhand
quote:
Here's Maria Moreno mixing in rock guitar with flamenco at an improvised performance this May (electric guitar at 00.42). Raúl Cantizano is the one that previously divided opinion with his 'prepared' flamenco guitar experimentation.
At 30:00 La Moneta dances to electric and flamenco guitar.
We saw this before and I admitted then this was tastefully done. The problem with distorted electric guitar is that it does not have the required dynamic range (he uses volume knob to swell single bass notes), but when done in combination with the flamenco guitar it works as a complement (assuming you can tolerate the distorted sound). I did a show where this was done with a keyboard that was imitating or had a synthesized distorted guitar tone like this that was very effective. But let’s be honest, it is still for theatrics…in Contrast to Ben Woods who was doing “flametal” not so much as a gimmick or theatrical show, but as a legit expression of the types of music he liked.
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