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How's my pulgar technique looking please?   You are logged in as Guest
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silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

How's my pulgar technique looking pl... 

Normally I keep indice on the high E, and sometimes my other fingers lightly rest on the golpeador. I was told not to practice this way unless there was a musical reason. So I have been trying to do it without anchoring, it feels a bit weird, but I think I'm getting there.

Is my right hand and wrist moving correctly, too much arm movement and not enough wrist? Should my thumb knuckle flex as much as it does?

Thanks for any help.

EDIT: There's a new video further down following Ricardo's feedback on visibility of my right arm and hand.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2023 18:23:02
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1658
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Your wrist doesn't move at all. Everything looks stiff. Relax your wrist and thumb.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2023 20:16:46
 
JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Until Dr Ricardo returns to the office, I can at least give you a little incomplete diagnosis for my own entertainment.

Do you have the Gerardo Nunez Encuentro vid? (Thought I had it on my hard drive to show you his pulgar section but it’s on my old laptop) Gerardo has some good explanation and exercises.


My advice. When you play your exercise there on the bass strings:

- keep your arm still. Turn your thumb in just a little more so it’s more perpendicular to strings. Rotate your wrist (just a little) as you play through the 3 strings. If your thumb is too parallel to the strings then it’s harder to use the wrist to drive the thumb I think. Don’t use your arm to drive the thumb. Only move it to reposition, for example moving from treble group to bass group.

- then rotate back up to the 6th or 5th to repeat the sequence.

- I like to anchor my index on the high e string, and keep the other fingers slightly curled but mostly relaxed. As the wrist rotates the index comes off the high e, so it’s hardly an anchors. But the other fingers provide a sort of balanced counter weight in a way.

- the big thumb joint can also be used, with or without wrist rotation. Sometimes it just makes more sense to use the thumb joint only and not the wrist. Antonio Rey claims you should practice playing with just the thumb but it can easily be over used and hurt if you’re not careful.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 3:13:28
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15039
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

You are aware the video screen shows the headstock of your guitar clearly and only 50% of your actual wrist and forearm????

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 11:46:00
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1658
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to JasonM

quote:

. If your thumb is too parallel to the strings then it’s harder to use the wrist to drive the thumb I think.

Yes, he plays pulgar in arpegio hand position.

quote:

Antonio Rey claims you should practice playing with just the thumb but it can easily be over used and hurt if you’re not careful.

Bad advice. At least he warned against overdoing it.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 16:24:16
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Thanks guys. Jason, that's really useful, thank you, and I have the Gerardo videos for pulgar, they are really good but clearly I ignored some key messages! I just did a new video, as Ricardo is right. One of the Gerardo exercises is on it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 17:49:46
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

You are aware the video screen shows the headstock of your guitar clearly and only 50% of your actual wrist and forearm????


Sorry Ricardo, you are right. How's this?

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 17:51:57
 
Mark2

Posts: 1908
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Super fun exercise from Gerardo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 20:55:51
 
johnnefastis

Posts: 633
Joined: Jan. 10 2012
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

I'm on your side
Nowhere to hide
Trapdoors that open
I spiral down
You're living in a fantasy world
You're living in a fantasy world


Love it man.. sounding good. Great study! Keep going!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 8 2023 22:26:23
 
davewphx

Posts: 128
Joined: Jul. 11 2011
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Looks great Silddx, relaxed hand no unneccessary motion. What exercises are they from, a dvd? Whats your nail situation now? Are you using nail in that exercise? I can't tell.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 1:08:04
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Thanks again, chaps, that's really encouraging.

Dave, the second video is a Gerardo Nunez exercise from here https://www.lasonantaclasses.com/programs/how-to-play-guitar-by-gerardo-nunez?category_id=2478

The first one is, as johnnefastis identified, the riff from In Limbo by Radiohead. I love it and it makes a nice little pulgar exercise.

Not using the GP nails, unless I have a catastrophe :) But I do coat some superglue on weaker nails, and sometimes glue some muslin on as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 8:32:45
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15039
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

quote:

ORIGINAL: silddx

quote:

You are aware the video screen shows the headstock of your guitar clearly and only 50% of your actual wrist and forearm????


Sorry Ricardo, you are right. How's this?




Ok, thanks. You are curling up the un-used fingers a bit too tightly. Try to leave them relaxed more, as when you have your hand dangling at your side. The wrist movement you need is pronation of the forearm which you can exaggerate a little when going slow. Use pulgar to play a basic descending scale to get used to this.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 11:53:58
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Ok, thanks. You are curling up the un-used fingers a bit too tightly. Try to leave them relaxed more, as when you have your hand dangling at your side. The wrist movement you need is pronation of the forearm which you can exaggerate a little when going slow. Use pulgar to play a basic descending scale to get used to this.


That's very helpful, Ricardo, thank you.

So after yours and others' observations, I'm in the ballpark, but just need to angle my wrist in a little more and get the forearm pronation going, and relax a bit.

Thanks again to all.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 13:30:04
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

quote:

So after yours and others' observations, I'm in the ballpark, but just need to angle my wrist in a little more and get the forearm pronation going, and relax a bit.


don't forget the supination too

how's your alzapúa, and rajeo abanico?

i think of those being related to pulgar technique through wrist movement, pronation and supination.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 14:10:57
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

don't forget the supination too

how's your alzapúa, and rajeo abanico?

i think of those being related to pulgar technique through wrist movement, pronation and supination.


:D Once my thumb goes down it doesn't come back up.

Alzapúa and abanico aren't too bad, I'm getting better, still slow though. I'll post a video if you like.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 14:55:01
 
JasonM

Posts: 2089
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Sounds good Silddx! Love the sound of your blanca.

Actually I had the other Gerardo pulgar exercise in mind - where he his emphasizing the wrist rotation. This one:



Or like Ricardo says, a descending run would do the trick since you cant just drag your thumb like you would in an ascending sequence, rather it forces you to rotate.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 15:27:36
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to JasonM

Ah great, thanks Jason. Yeah I'll probably practice descending scales as I'm behind with that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 16:39:57
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

quote:

Alzapúa and abanico aren't too bad, I'm getting better, still slow though. I'll post a video if you like.


Up to you if you want to post a video and ask others for feedback... i mentioned alzapúa and abanico as i think those and pulgar all "help" each other, so if you're working on pulgar it's good also to focus on those.

In any situation like you have in the first video where you are dragging the thumb down across 3 strings, that part is kinda easy (for me, anyway), the hard part (again, for me) is lifting the thumb back across those strings back to the lowest one of the group to play the next 3. Both alzapúa and abanico involve lifting the thumb, so you are practising that in those. Also the thumb, hand and wrist need to be really relaxed in abanico, so that helps too.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 16:47:35
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

the hard part (again, for me) is lifting the thumb back across those strings back to the lowest one of the group to play the next 3.


Yep, that's the tricky bit!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 17:13:35
 
Stu

Posts: 2632
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Nice one noel. Good on you for posting a video.
Hopefully the feedback can help.

One of the best tips i heard... I think on this foro. Was to give you thumb some weight. Practice letting it fall/drop onto the string. I can't remember who said it or how it was said but the premise was as I said.

Also, another good tip is to get you thumb crushed under an enormous film light!! Blood and skin everywhere. And contrary to your fears and worries it will be much better at flamenco techniques once it heals. 👍
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 17:16:22
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to Stu

quote:

One of the best tips i heard... I think on this foro. Was to give you thumb some weight. Practice letting it fall/drop onto the string. I can't remember who said it or how it was said but the premise was as I said.


Ah yes, I was told to allow gravity to help with the work.

quote:

Also, another good tip is to get you thumb crush under an enormous film light!! Blood and skin everywhere. And contrary to your fears and worries it will be much better at flamenco techniques once it heals.


Eek! Sounds 'orrible! No nerve damage?

I have a metal wrist from a motorcycle accident, did my playing no harm either.

Cheers,
Nigel
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 17:52:21
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

quote:

tricky bit


for more concentrated tricky bits a friend of mine did one of Manolo Sanlúcars 3 week technique courses way back and showed me an exercise where you skip strings with pulgar, so you play strings:

6, 4, 5, 3, 4, 2, 3, 1, 3, 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6, 4, repeat.

The chords are C, G7, C, F, C, G7, C. The descent from strings 1 to 4, 2 to 5 and 3 to 6 is hard.

Anyway, I forgot it, and trying to remember it I played it like this:

6, 4, 5, 3, 4, 2, 3, 1, 2, 1, 3, 2, 4, 3, 5, 4, repeat,

which is a bit easier as on the descent you are "only" skipping 1 to 3, 2 to 4, 3 to 5 and 4 to 6.

I thought it reminded me of something else though... turns out it is the same pattern as Villa Lobos estudio 1.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 17:58:52
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

for more concentrated tricky bits a friend of mine did one of Manolo Sanlúcars 3 week technique courses way back and showed me an exercise where you skip strings with pulgar, so you play strings:


Ah cool, I will try that tomorrow. Thank you.

When I'm practising piami tremolo I use the thing that Scott Tennant does with his thumb 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 5 1 4 1 3 1 2 1. Mind you, I'm still sh*te at tremolo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 18:11:00
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

quote:

Ah cool, I will try that tomorrow. Thank you.


Don't overdo it, it is hard work on the thumb. Especially if you try the Villa Lobos chords (there was a video on YT of David Cerreduela using the chords for practising various arpegios and a member here posted a tab of the chords he was shown by El Entri) - I can't get through them all doing it with pulgar yet before I need to stop and rest. And I am doing it at least half the speed I would play the whole thing with arpegios.

quote:

When I'm practising piami tremolo I use the thing that Scott Tennant does with his thumb 1 2 1 3 1 4 1 5 1 6 1 5 1 4 1 3 1 2 1. Mind you, I'm still sh*te at tremolo.


so the iami is always on string 1 and the thumb note moves back and forth from string 1 across the rest of the strings?

I have never encountered anything in flamenco tremolo with piami all on the same string, so don't practise it, but I guess it might exist somewhere....?

What I do find I need to be able to play with tremolo is iami on the second string, so I practise that, and moving iami back and forth between 1st, 2nd and 3rd strings, with pulgar playing available lower strings.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 20:01:28
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

Don't overdo it, it is hard work on the thumb.


Thanks, yes I am very careful about that.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 20:51:19
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to mark indigo

quote:

so the iami is always on string 1 and the thumb note moves back and forth from string 1 across the rest of the strings?


Correct, to help embed that thumb string-switching coordination.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 9 2023 20:55:04
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1658
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Work on your right hand only. No Villas Lobos chords. Only open strings. One can see you're distracted by left hand fingerings.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 10 2023 20:14:11
 
silddx

Posts: 644
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

Work on your right hand only. No Villas Lobos chords. Only open strings. One can see you're distracted by left hand fingerings.


No disrespect, but I won't be taking your advice. I have seen no evidence that you have the knowledge, skills and experience to be dispensing advice to others. Sorry chief.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 10 2023 20:46:09
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

quote:

quote:

Work on your right hand only. No Villas Lobos chords. Only open strings. One can see you're distracted by left hand fingerings.


quote:

No disrespect, but I won't be taking your advice. I have seen no evidence that you have the knowledge, skills and experience to be dispensing advice to others. Sorry chief.


óle

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 10 2023 20:51:49
 
Piwin

Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: How's my pulgar technique lookin... (in reply to silddx

Personally for the Gerardo exercise my hand looks more like this:



Especially the middle finger, it often ends up on the E string or on the plate. That's just where it ends up if I relax. I have noticed though that sometimes I start tensing up and the middle finger ends up straight and anchored as if I were doing a golpe. Which is probably a bad habit I should fix... So, dunno if it's tension making you curl up your fingers like that, but if it is maybe relax that a bit? But not so much that you end up with stiff straight fingers like I sometimes do. ^^

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 11 2023 1:34:22
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