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$2000-5000, what guitar makers/brands would you be looking at?   You are logged in as Guest
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darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

$2000-5000, what guitar makers/brand... 

*i have edited this from the original to be more specific in my questions. i was in a rush earlier when i posted and should have taken more time with it. the reply below from orsonw was made based on my earlier post that was not as specific as it is now-thank you to the reply orson.**

looking for something in the USA, used is fine, what is out there in that price range that will take me down a long road of learning. i can stretch that amount if the right guitar is found.

in the past, many years ago, i went thru the Yamaha Flamenco CG171, next a Navarro but not sure of the model-thinking it was a cedar top/rosewood variety back-concert, then traded into a student level Conde(had the 3 piece cypress back). i much preferred the Conde over the other two.

i have found Memorial Music and the Navarro instruments.
zavaleta's and Guitar Salon. Tried calling Zavaletas but the phone number doesn't work and there is a notice that says "permanently closed" even though the website is still up(i may try to email them).

the Guitar Salon has a few used German Vazquez Rubio within my price range. they have a used 2011 Felipe Conde "FC 27" SP/IN that i could add some $ from a steel string sell that just went thru. The student model Conde i had back in the day fit me very well, really liked the neck profile, overall fit, and sound.


i've been slowly making my way thru the classifieds here but most seem already gone, or i'm not familiar with the make so i need to research on that.

open to suggestions to research.

Blanca or Negra doesn't matter. Good intonation, tone, playability is what i am looking for and a soundclip, must have at least a 48 hr time period for inspection with right to return. this will need to be a shipped order as i live in rural Ky and there are zero Flamenco possibilities within hours or days of travel, so hands on locally or without long distance travel is not available.

thanks to any and all suggestions/other shops in the USA to look into
d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2023 21:39:25
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar would yo... (in reply to darylcrisp

quote:

i'm basically at the place where a beginner would be and not really know what they are looking for yet-lol


Then I suggest don't spend $2-5K when you don't know what guitar you want. You can easily spend $5K on a guitar and find out that you don't like it.
Get a Yamaha CG182SF play for a while. Try some guitars find out what you like.

In the meantime:
https://www.zavaletas-guitarras.com/flamenco-guitars
The website looks up and running?
Also in USA https://danzeffguitars.com/

Ethan Deutsch and Andy Culpepper are respected flamenco luthiers based in the USA. They are foro members. I think 5K might get you close to ordering one.

Ethan sometimes has one available e.g. here listed for $5K in foro classifieds.
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=342581&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 31 2023 22:40:12
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

thanks OrsonW
the DanJeff site has a couple i am going to inquire about-thank you for that link. will also email Ethan Deutsch and Andy.

d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2023 5:33:33
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

I just read your edited OP. If you like Conde, definitely get a Conde. Depending on the year/address you can still find a media luna around $5K, although they have gone up in general.
E.g. Guitar Salon International second hand Conde prices are top of the market, you can certainly find them for less through private sellers in the USA.
Here in Europe 2010s Felipe V/ Felipe Conde are less E.g. Mark has a 2010 Felipe V for £3500 in the foro classifieds.
Then again, even though I personally like Conde, generally I prefer other years/addresses. Need to try the individual/actual guitar.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2023 9:02:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14995
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

Dan Zeff always has nice used Condes from various eras. Highly recommended www.danzeffguitars.com but call and talk to him because he always has stock not listed.

In the lower range Ricardo Sanchis or his sons Hermanos Sanchis Lopez are the best for the price.

_____________________________

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2023 12:06:09
 
silddx

Posts: 606
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

I have heard some people say good things about https://finefretted.com/instruments/flamenco-guitars
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2023 12:17:00
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to silddx

quote:

I have heard some people say good things about https://finefretted.com/instruments/flamenco-guitars


They might be good guitars, but over priced. E.g. looks like a green label Felipe V student model, and what looks like a multi address Pozuelo blue label Conde. Designations not declared. They have chosen not to show photographs of the Conde labels (unlike all the other flamenco guitars listed on the page). They have taken a photograph of the blue label Conde rosette at an angle where the label is not visible. Asking thousands more than market price.

Also a second hand Andy Culpepper for a couple of grand more than commissioning one from Andy.


Conde questions/answers here:

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=100890&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=conde%2Cquestions

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=303770&appid=&p=&mpage=1&key=&tmode=&smode=&s=#303770
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2023 14:49:50
 
silddx

Posts: 606
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to orsonw

quote:

They might be good guitars, but over priced. E.g. looks like a green label Felipe V student model, and what looks like a multi address Pozuelo blue label Conde. Designations not declared. They have chosen not to show photographs of the Conde labels (unlike all the other flamenco guitars listed on the page). They have taken a photograph of the blue label Conde rosette at an angle where the label is not visible. Asking thousands more than market price.

Also a second hand Andy Culpepper for a couple of grand more than commissioning one from Andy.


Ah, thank you! I hate that place now :D
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 1 2023 18:30:47
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

thank you to everybody that has replied and given info-i'm reading the two threads with all the Conde info-thank you OrsonW

thanks Ricardo-i remember you from many years ago when i frequented this forum to learn all about this Flamenco style. amazing forum here!

d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 3:06:35
 
Chanpanpap

 

Posts: 46
Joined: Jan. 31 2023
From: Miami

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

Hi Darylscrips, if im not too late IMHO I think condes are overrated, there are plenty of other luthiers around, maybe you should be patient, I know from my very own experience I hesitate for a Condes their fine, but I believe there are better and cheaper.

Victor Quintanilla for example if you can find a second for around 3.5k USD. quite powerful

Javier Castaño as well for around 3.5k please go for 2021 forward, before 2021 they weren't that good as now. very good sound

Jeronimo Perez is also a good promise, you can do second hand for around 4-5k but again try to look for 2018 forward

Also bonus one as personal one. Conde Hermanos 2a are totally worth it a 2a on 2023 are better than the 1a, same construction just the wood was not as dried as a 1a back then now days their amazing,,, recommendation dont pay over 2k also if you have the chance to try it out it would be better.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 3:51:07
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

Yes, good idea to read those Conde threads if you're ignorant of Conde. Also check Chanpanpap's thread linked below. He was asking Conde buying advice a few months ago. There are some more up to date answers there.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=345561&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=


@Chanpanpap How is the Conde you ended up getting with the high bridge? Did you post pictures? Is it a 1999 Gravina 7?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 10:14:03
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to Chanpanpap

Another USA dealer. I know nothing of them except that they have a youtube channel with Jose Antonio Rodriguez demoing guitars.

https://www.alegraguitars.com/shop-all


https://www.youtube.com/@alegraguitars456
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 11:12:28
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14995
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to orsonw

quote:

ORIGINAL: orsonw

Yes, good idea to read those Conde threads if you're ignorant of Conde. Also check Chanpanpap's thread linked below. He was asking Conde buying advice a few months ago. There are some more up to date answers there.

http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=345561&mpage=1&p=&tmode=1&smode=1&key=


@Chanpanpap How is the Conde you ended up getting with the high bridge? Did you post pictures? Is it a 1999 Gravina 7?


I was reading scratching my head like “huh?????”, but now realize it was THAT guy. . I sent him a great option, but no he wanted the rare “cedar top” flamenco…and got one “refinished”. And now ALL Condes are “overrated”. Yikes

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 17:20:13
 
Chanpanpap

 

Posts: 46
Joined: Jan. 31 2023
From: Miami

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to orsonw

Hi ORSONW its an concert guitar too ok for me lol

actually I have realized that an very low bridge its not good for me lol as
I keet it in 2.75 and 10 in the bridge so im confortable with it

have post pictures yet
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 17:50:03
 
Chanpanpap

 

Posts: 46
Joined: Jan. 31 2023
From: Miami

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

I sent him a great option, but no he wanted the rare “cedar top” flamenco…and got one “refinished”. And now ALL Condes are “overrated”. Yikes


LOOOL right, I do believe now that condes are overrated, guess you have to learn from your mistakes,

and regarding the cedar, I mean its ok spruce or cedar but spruce has that brightness and colors to flamenco that cedar can as well do but its just a different attack,

one big mistake I made was to think that my guitars have a similar way to be played and ugh big mistake.... all guitars are different and have a different way to playing them.

BTW I DO NOT REGRET SAYING CONDES ARE OVERRATED there are plenty more and cheaper if youre going that route, and better if your going expensive as well
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 17:54:24
 
orsonw

Posts: 1958
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to Chanpanpap

quote:

Hi ORSONW its an concert guitar too ok for me lol

actually I have realized that an very low bridge its not good for me lol as
I keet it in 2.75 and 10 in the bridge so im confortable with it

have post pictures yet


A refinished 1999 Gravina 7 with 10mm bridge height. What did you pay for it?

Yes, please post some pictures.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 18:00:22
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

ok, so i read thru the first link last night regarding Conde/labels/who builds them, etc.

wow, thats a lot to compress into thought. i never knew all this. had always assumed their was this small group of decades long trained builders that worked together for decades and built these wonderful guitars that a lot of people desire.

so a person really needs to have a hands on with any guitar for sure, thats why a return option is very important to me. and i do understand that irregardless who is building them, if the guitar is good, its good.

i think a good phone call is needed to Dan and see what he might recommend in my price range-i can go up if necessary but prefer to stay around $5000 or under,
i will check with Andy C also because i listened to a video of one of his guitars and it sounded really nice.

i listened to two Victor Quintanilla guitars last night and i really liked them both-kinda a very crisp clean "modern" tone, but with some growl. different looks in the rosette and bridge shape vs traditional but i liked them. i think Dan has a used one.

so lots of options and i do want to take time to try my best to get a long termer-not interested in trading in and out or buying/sale route these days.

still highly interested in a good Conde, i am in no way the level of player that i can discern the differences of what many of you can pick out immediately with the tone. for me, i want a good solid guitar build, good setup from the getgo, and a tone that sounds good to me. that will take me on out of here being 63 yrs old already.

Dan Zeff has a used Conde Negra and Blanca. Another thing i need to watch is scale length. I have a left thumb permanent injury where 650 works best, longer can give me some issue (with steel string-maybe not with nylon but i don't know that yet).

thanks to everyone for all the discussion and please keep it going and coming. welcome to hear anything about any guitar that might be here in the USA that i can check on.

this weekend i will go to the next thread Orson linked and then next week the other link in another post. a lot to take in and know about these Conde, and not being there to have it in hand to play makes this a decision to not take lightly.

thanks again everybody
d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 18:30:24
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

OrsonW, thank you for the Alegraguitar link, they have a large group of guitars and the video are very helpful.

i like that they have the Sanchis Lopez guitars and those sound really nice. The Atocha Conde sound very good also, the one's i've listened too. i will take my time and go thru these to see what appeals to me and give them a call.

both Conde below are 660 scale

2018 Conde Atocha spruce/Indian Rosewood $6500(!!!)


2019 Conde Atocha spruce/cypress $5500(thats better-lol)
i like this one with pegs(not sure if they are friction or mechanical)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 2 2023 19:12:09
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

i need some info on how to evaluate proper neck set/bridge height on a Flamenco, and any other build quality that i should be aware of.

without the proper playing skills to check the instrument like many of you have, i can do the technical part to at least make sure i am starting with a good neck set. i can do fretwork, nut/saddle work no problem.

i know string action height will be a personal thing as skills develop, but what is a good starting place.

below are a few i've listened too and like the tone, please feel free to tell me what you think of the tone of any of these video i post. i think these are all listed as new, irregardless of the year make. i'm finding a lot of Negra from different makers that are too dark for my taste-too much sustain-almost like a classical sound. the Negra i post here sound good to me. (includes both the Atocha Conde posted above).

all these Sanchis Lopez are 550 scale

2015 Hermanos Sanchis Lopez spruce/cypress $3500(has two videos)



2020 Hermanos Sanchis Lopez spruce/Indian rosewood $4000


2020 Hermanos Sanchis Lopez spruce/Pau ferro $4200 (this sounds better to me than the above Indian Rosewood, more punchy, less dark but still Negra qualities)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 3 2023 22:02:49
 
crooksj5

 

Posts: 106
Joined: Jan. 7 2014
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

I could highly recommend Jeronimo Perez guitars. They really sound and play amazing, there is currently a brand new 2023 negra available at my store Wood Vibrations Music.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2023 12:42:38
 
JasonM

Posts: 2082
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

quote:

i need some info on how to evaluate proper neck set/bridge height on a Flamenco, and any other build quality that i should be aware of.


If the bridge is high and the 12th fret action is still 3mm, then the neck angle could be too shallow/flat or the ebony fingerboard is too thick
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 6 2023 21:33:27
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14995
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to JasonM

quote:

ORIGINAL: JasonM

quote:

i need some info on how to evaluate proper neck set/bridge height on a Flamenco, and any other build quality that i should be aware of.


If the bridge is high and the 12th fret action is still 3mm, then the neck angle could be too shallow/flat or the ebony fingerboard is too thick


My “Goldilocks” guitar has 3mm at 12 (not holding 1st fret, so a hair lower if you do that capo 1 thing to negate the nut) and 7mm at the bridge (strings to tap plate distance close to the bridge). A cigarette gets stuck (won’t roll) under the strings near the bridge and the fingerboard does not buzz with normal playing. I have guitars that are higher bridge (8mm or so), and sometimes higher action (up to 4 mm at 12 un-capoed still works for me) that are fine or comparable, and guitars with classical setups, very high (1 cm) and buzzing fingerboard (2.5 mm at 12 un-capoed is buzzing on all guitars for me). I have bloody finger photos that explain the problem.

_____________________________

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2023 14:06:16
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2216
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to crooksj5

quote:

I could highly recommend Jeronimo Perez guitars.


People such as Cepero, Salado, Guerrero etc agree with you
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2023 16:34:53
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

thanks folks for the replies to my question regarding neck angle and how to assess. i found a couple threads in the Lutherie forum that gave me a lot of info, and there is another thread within this thread of mine that gave some good info, so i'm probably "ok" with that now.

i have been looking around and sent a PM regarding the Culpepper in the classifieds. has a real nice tone and whoever is playing it is playing relaxed and not having to dig in to get the tone out-its a sharp looking guitar as well. i just got a text from the owner so we are getting ready to discuss via email. i'm excited on this guitar, i'm not sure where the owner is located but i might be willing to take a chance on shipping this in. i seem to remember his forum name from years ago(i think).
Here's the link to the ad listing
http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=341927&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 7 2023 22:53:56
 
Stu

Posts: 2618
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to darylcrisp

quote:

whoever is playing it is playing relaxed and not having to dig in to get the tone out


That's Andy Culpepper himself. The maker

That classified is a year old. Is it still for sale? Hopefully it works out for you.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2023 0:18:25
 
darylcrisp

 

Posts: 69
Joined: Mar. 30 2008
 

RE: $2000-5000, what guitar makers/b... (in reply to Stu

The owner and I have emailed tonight and he is in Europe, but the Culpepper is in California with his parents. He purchased it from Andy years ago and over the last few years moved away from guitar. Always been kept at his parents home. He is going to get a shipping quote for me tomorrow and if the sale goes thru, will have his parents box and ship it.

Dan Zeff replied this eve as well to an email I sent and has returned 3 guitar listings for me to check out based on everything I told him(beginner/price range top $5000/physical size, body,arms,fingers).

All other places I’ve called and emailed have not replied yet.

I do like the Culpepper in the classifieds a lot based on what I hear and what the owner told me regarding questions I sent. Sounds like it’s in very good condition, single owner. And the price point is very good.

d
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 8 2023 1:57:39
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