Foro Flamenco


Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.

This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.

We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





New Research on Hearing Silence   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 980
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

New Research on Hearing Silence 

Watch the short video first: https://www.eurekalert.org/multimedia/991145

A short, accessible summary of the research, which is forthcoming in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, is here: https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/994869

I wonder if this has any interesting implications for the perception of rhythm.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 23 2023 3:36:20
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14914
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Research on Hearing Silence (in reply to machopicasso

I don’t get it. They play two short silences then a longer one, and then admit they are “the same length”. Which I conclude to mean they have no clue what the F they are talking about.


They perhaps mean the two short clips added together equal the same time duration as the long silence, OR, they mean the two short silences PLUS the intermittent noise between them equals the same time duration as the continuous silence. Either way they probably don’t care about that distinction because they are morons for not explaining it better. But if it was some one’s PHD I can understand… a lot of science these days reminds me of grade school kids hunting around their kitchen for something to turn in as a project that is “due tomorrow”.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 23 2023 15:50:47
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3435
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: New Research on Hearing Silence (in reply to Ricardo

“You’ll hear two sequences of silence, one after the other. First you’ll hear two brief silences, separated by a resumption of sound. Next you’ll hear a continuous silence.”

To make the description clear I would delete “of silence” from the first sentence. The first of the two sequences is not a sequence of silence. It contains a segment of sound. The next two sentences accurately describe the two sequences. The notable effect is that the first sequence seems shorter, though the tw sequences are in fact the same length.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2023 2:57:16
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 980
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: New Research on Hearing Silence (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

I don’t get it. They play two short silences then a longer one, and then admit they are “the same length”.


The point is not that the longer silence is equal in length to the two short silences combined. Rather, it's that people typically perceive the first as being longer than the latter, despite the equal length. That's the perceptual illusion that they claim occurs, regardless of whether the segments consist of sounds or silence.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2023 4:08:29
 
Ricardo

Posts: 14914
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: New Research on Hearing Silence (in reply to machopicasso

quote:

ORIGINAL: machopicasso

quote:

I don’t get it. They play two short silences then a longer one, and then admit they are “the same length”.


The point is not that the longer silence is equal in length to the two short silences combined. Rather, it's that people typically perceive the first as being longer than the latter, despite the equal length. That's the perceptual illusion that they claim occurs, regardless of whether the segments consist of sounds or silence.



The “first” what? As Richard said, the entire sequence including the intermittent noise stab. Yet they don’t define that…they deliberately don’t because they want people to think the big reveal is TIME DURATION discrepancy. It is the worst “science” I have ever seen. A simple test has been done where the click is muted but is still going and people need to keep the tempo solid for a certain time duration and come back on the beat. It is challenging and the typical error is rushing the space. (Anticipation) Vs dragging the tempo (coming in late). It turns out the people that drag are likely better at rhythm and groove things than the rushing group. And of course the rare minority has perfect tempo and nails it every time. Musicians deliberately work to improve this. All the hearing test above is doing is rediscovering this same phenomenon with a none music example. It has NOTHING to do with “silence” but the perception of time, even when repeating noise is occurring.

If instead they didn’t talk about silence at all and asked the question first “is the second sequence longer/shorter duration, or are they the same?”, which is how a science question should be posed, then I would be tracking time by the feeling. And again you would see the same or similar stats as with the click example.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2023 16:44:24
 
edguerin

Posts: 1590
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: New Research on Hearing Silence (in reply to machopicasso

I contest that we actually don't hear anything in silence.
Rather we have our own "baseline" of sound basically generated by blood-flow.
We are habituated to this low level "white noise", and don't perceive it consciously.
So we are not actually hearing "nothing", our brain is constantly applying sound filters.

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 24 2023 17:17:32
Page:   [1]
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: [1]
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.046875 secs.