RE: Flamenco de verdad

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estebanana

Posts: 9367
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Flamenco de verdad (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

Asking money for person is a legally actionable offense in the US. Women aren’t things.

The gitano community globally, has always lived outside of local laws, hence their experience in Europe
Was always that of being marginalized in any community they landed in. A nomadic way of life was
Their solution. It is also for this reason the “racisit” laws put forth to force integration in parts of Spain.
The flamenco ones that did integrate, still clung to their traditions and “gypsy law”, obviously, needing to
Keep things “secret”, or underground. The cante moved hand in hand with this situation.

By interpreting their traditional practices as your sentiments imply (trafficking), and trying to FORCE them
By law, to abandon their traditions and beliefs, you are acting no differently than the European racist
marginalization of their collective group. Anyway, they are not “trafficking” women, or treating them as
“Property”. The tradition is designed to PROTECT young girls, first of all, and as the Pericon book elucidates,
But also to keep blood lines pure. By choosing the husband for a daughter, yes we end up with the known
Problems (inbreeding and genetic defects), but it is part of why we see flamenco artists with names like
“Vargas Vargas”, or “Fernandez Fernandez”, and artistic nicknames are used instead of surnames. As I
Said, you are preaching to the choir here regarding their practices that are weird and foreign (even illegal),
But it is absolutely being racist to point a finger at them as a group and order a cease and desist of their
Traditional practices. And as we leave them to it, and watch the younger generations slowly evolve out of
These old ways, becoming MORE integrated and modernized with society, so will disappear any of the cante
That was tied to those old ways (basically what the other guy was saying IMO). It is not like cante was ever
In support of human trafficking or treating women unfairly. It is more about the pride of purity of the race
And culture.

Ricardo,

I studied anthropology I understand this, I’ve asked a lot of questions about this subject. I never said ‘force’ anything-
I said to blame women or correct the loss of cante to women in any way or even track the loss of cante by saying it’s connected to premarital virginity is to be hypocritical. Maybe you don’t see my point. What it is, it that women aren’t going to put up with this and if women reject these situations, they are not ‘cultural values’ these are situations where women are being treated as things. They aren’t going to stay in this mind set and it doesn’t have anything to do with losing aspects of culture that were reinforced by a concept of seeing women as community property instead of a person with a situation of menstruation or pregnancy.

On a global scale now women are rejecting these aspects of their respective cultures and my view is that they shouldn’t be blamed for it by lamenting any particular loss of cultural arts. Figure out a way to perpetuate it.

Btw don’t assume I’m not also connected to ‘the people’ in some way and talking out of context. But like you I’m not going to bring any families or cite anything said or that I’ve seen in an indiscreet way on the internet.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2023 0:58:55

Piwin

Posts: 3564
Joined: Feb. 9 2016

RE: Flamenco de verdad (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

chicken blood

If all else fails, blame Santiago Nasar.

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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 27 2023 7:27:53

estebanana

Posts: 9367
Joined: Oct. 16 2009

RE: Flamenco de verdad (in reply to estebanana)

A great Bay Area concert organizer named Nina Menendez brought Agujetas to California, she deserves a lot of credit for putting on some of the best festivals and and tours of important flamenco artists in the US.

I was at this date at the Julia Morgan Theater in Berkeley- this is the time I thought his performance was parsimonious. Or, I had such an experience that it went so fast I didn’t want it to stop.

With a great guitarist, I believe it was Manuel Valencia- wow