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rafapak

 

Posts: 294
Joined: Aug. 9 2015
 

tutorial recommendation 

hi
can you guys recommend youtube tutorial where they teach rhythm played by rhythm guitarist who is wearing glasses in video below ? i mean fast rumba rhythm. i don't know strums he does with right hand.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 1:50:33
 
JasonM

Posts: 2088
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to rafapak

Here is one of many. Viva Benito Woods!



Once you get the patterns down a tip is to try and relax your hand and use your wrist.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 3:34:56
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to rafapak

quote:

ORIGINAL: rafapak

hi
can you guys recommend youtube tutorial where they teach rhythm played by rhythm guitarist who is wearing glasses in video below ? i mean fast rumba rhythm. i don't know strums he does with right hand.




Hey man, the guy in this video is playing it “correctly” as I think of it (cool that they are in front of David Jones LOL)…Ben is a unique artists with unique techniques to go with that, so no, that is not what I do. So I just spent half-an hour and did not find a SINGLE correct technique to link here….very sorry!!

If I come across one I will link it here, meanwhile if you want to sign up for a Skype orientation, I can show you for free in about 15 minutes. I am dumb founded how many people think what they are doing is “how the gipsy kings do it”, it is NOT that complicated!!

EDIT:
Actually I am somehow greatly disturbed by this. How is there some random guy on the street doing exactly what I do and understand as the base, and NOBODY on YouTube making tutorials is showing it???? I don’t get it. I really demand a scientific explanation for this thing it is so damn bizarre. I mean, I totally get that there are variations and personal styles, even the brothers of the gipsy kings have their unique expressions. But the random street guy gets the idea but everybody else on YouTube does not hear it is different??? . Still looking for an example, wow. 2 hours now.

EDIT 2: Our buddy Ramzi has the closest one so far, his rumba pattern 09. If you care to look it up. I am NOT gonna link it. He teaches 7 out of 8 strokes exactly correct slow…however, when he speeds up he neglects the things he shows correctly which is weird. The 8th stroke is not correct which ties to stroke 1 so that is why I can’t link it. Search continues.

EDIT 3: hey Zeus Cree stay….I am basically giving up. AT least here is a correct thing strokes 2-7 only. Do what this guy does EXCEPT!!!!!!. On the final stroke DO NOT LIFT YOUR THUMB OFF OF THE DANG 6th STRING LIKE HE DOES!!!!! Keep attached and then on stroke ONE, you let it fall across the strings rather than from the air as he does. This is SUPER important, as to do as the guy in the video, you must do that thing, and further, if you want to voice a chord from A string bass, then you set it up with stroke 7 (the mute stroke) and attach the thumb to the 5th string on stroke 8 (don’t lift in the air as I said before). This would in theory apply to a D chord voicing as well, except attaching to the D string. Observe the detail of stroke 4 at 4:00, THAT Is how it is done. In addition the stroke 7 the thumb strikes the wood as you mute, again important (only used on chords voiced from 6th string).

Sorry for the verbal explanation….it would be easier if you could see it done correctly and explained but I can’t freaking find ONE!!! . Lastly, I say do what this guy teaches then refine it by slowing down your street guy’s video.



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 13:37:24
 
hamia

 

Posts: 408
Joined: Jun. 25 2004
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to Ricardo

Grisha did a nice video on the rumba strum. Not sure if it's the same as the one in the video but could be a good starting point.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 14:35:38
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to hamia

quote:

ORIGINAL: hamia

Grisha did a nice video on the rumba strum. Not sure if it's the same as the one in the video but could be a good starting point.


Sorry but it is also “wrong”, in the sense it is NOT what the guy in the street video is doing at all. Sorry I keep editing my above video, see the final Edit

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 14:43:56
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1652
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to rafapak

quote:

can you guys recommend youtube tutorial where they teach rhythm played by rhythm guitarist who is wearing glasses

I can't believe I'm posting in a rumba thread. The guy who is soloing over rumba does the right thing letting the guy with glasses do the dirty work. You should learn how to solo. The problem is solved.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 15:37:07
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to devilhand

quote:

the guy with glasses do the dirty work.


Your mentality reveals a partial answer to the question I posited in Edit 2, deep into my 2nd hour of failure to observe a correct expression of the basic technique. Thanks for the data. People think it is “dirty work”, ie, they have no respect for the technique itself. Very interesting.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 15:39:20
 
hamia

 

Posts: 408
Joined: Jun. 25 2004
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: hamia

Grisha did a nice video on the rumba strum. Not sure if it's the same as the one in the video but could be a good starting point.


Sorry but it is also “wrong”, in the sense it is NOT what the guy in the street video is doing at all. Sorry I keep editing my above video, see the final Edit


Good video there. But I only get a total of 6 strokes (perhaps I am combining some together). Is this basically correct:

1. P down, with 3 finger golpe
2. Up stroke (3 fingers together)
3. Downstroke with ami fingers
4. Up P, with open hand and ami fingers ending on soundboard ready for upstroke.
5. Upstroke with ami togther
6. Ami down together with palm mute
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 16:10:21
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to hamia

quote:

ORIGINAL: hamia

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: hamia

Grisha did a nice video on the rumba strum. Not sure if it's the same as the one in the video but could be a good starting point.


Sorry but it is also “wrong”, in the sense it is NOT what the guy in the street video is doing at all. Sorry I keep editing my above video, see the final Edit


Good video there. But I only get a total of 6 strokes (perhaps I am combining some together). Is this basically correct:

1. P down, with 3 finger golpe
2. Up stroke (3 fingers together)
3. Downstroke with ami fingers
4. Up P, with open hand and ami fingers ending on soundboard ready for upstroke.
5. Upstroke with ami togther
6. Ami down together with palm mute


1. Yes but from a rested thumb position.
2. Yes, although it is ok to use P upstroke here as many do.
3. Yes.
4.Yes with golpe BACK OF THE THUMB NAIL under the trebles on upstroke and violently exaggerated (this is what most folks are missing on YouTube that otherwise seem to be doing an up with P.)
5. NO! This is timed as an individual stroke of its own, even though it is simply a plant of the fingers on the soundboard that creates a nailless bass golpe. The guy demonstrates this along with number 4 where you have included it together as a single “stroke”. As a mechanism the guy wants you to understand how they work together as a single entity, but rhythmically they take up two different complete spaces of time. Many others do a slap that makes percussion with flat fingers on the soundboard plus a mute or killing of the strings from ringing. THis is not wrong, but also not what these guys are doing in the two videos of interest. I call this “bridge” and the other “slap”. The bridge allows the chord to continue ringing.
6. Up stroke as your no. 5.
7. Yes (your no. 6) but ADD THE GOLPE WITH THE SIDE OF THE THUMB AT THE SAME TIME.
8. Final up stroke with ami OR just i is sort of ok, as flamenco guitarists are more used to, with the THUMB REMAINING RESTED ON THE CORRECT BASS STRING. Which ever bass you need for the next round.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 16:28:15
 
JasonM

Posts: 2088
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to Ricardo

Actually I was looking for a video tutorial of how Ricardo does it and went through about 5 before posting the Ben Woods, as well I was thinking I guess maybe everyone has their own way or too many variations. the one of the French Gypsy guy is def it though
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 17:59:24
 
Mark2

Posts: 1908
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to rafapak

I learned the way I do it from Mariano Cordoba, who was a Madrid guy in the 50's. In the 90's I had a band that did a lot of rumba and I played it to death. When the GK's broke out in 1988, I saw that they did it somewhat different. In part because a few of them played left handed with guitars strung right handed.

I'm not sure if there is one "right" way to do it. There was a good guitarist in my town then (1992) named Keith Baylor. He clocked a lot of time in Spain working. He saw the way I played it and said it was good. Good enough for me. I'm not especially interested in knowing ten ways to do it, and I'll never play it as much as I have. The good thing about it is you can support an entire band with it, even without a bass player. I was able to work with great players who could solo like crazy while I held the whole thing down with that silly, overused, and at this point, completely boring pattern.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 10 2023 19:04:58
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to rafapak

Finally! Cepero (of all people ). Shows how stroke 8 works, by setting up the thumb, this time on string 5 (Am chord). In case folks thinks it was some super specific gypsy king thing, no, it’s jerezano puro right here. Watch from 2:30:



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2023 13:53:26
 
kitarist

Posts: 1721
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to Ricardo

What Paco Cepero is doing here is a bit different overall from what you described for the eight strokes, as shown below (your description comes from taking what you updated/corrected of hamia's list).

Is what Paco is doing the Jerez way of doing rumba? Why is it different from what you described in several ways (e.g. in 1. thumb is free, not rested; no 'a' golpe; in 3. it is P down, not ima down; in 4. there is no golpe(?); 5. does not seem to match)?

Please let me know if I transcribed some Cepero movements wrong.



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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 25 2023 19:57:27
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

What Paco Cepero is doing here is a bit different overall from what you described for the eight strokes, as shown below (your description comes from taking what you updated/corrected of hamia's eight-stroke list).

Is what Paco is doing the Jerez way of doing rumba? Why is it different from what you described in several ways (e.g. in 1. thumb is free, not rested; no 'a' golpe; in 3. it is P down, not ima down; in 4. there is no golpe(?); 5. does not seem to match)?

Please let me know if I transcribed some Cepero movements wrong.




Ok, well, the thing I wrote is what he is doing. When you say thumb is “free” on stroke 1 you imply it did not come from a RESTED position (hand is closing and thumb is freeing due to the stroke itself). The rest was achieved with stroke 7, carried through stroke 8 (which you have correct, but if people start the stroke from a FREE position in the air, it is misleading that they might be able to remove the rested thumb after stroke 8).

Stroke 2, the thumb comes up but doesn’t touch, and he uses i to make the sound rather than striking with ami all together. The wrist has to move (supinate) in order for that thumb to move that way, so the exact same mechanic is involved. The reason for this, and the other strokes (as we see moving foward) are not exaggerated is because he has LEAD GUITAR VOLUME. You don’t play exaggerated and hard unless the volume is balanced (hence the guy on the street doing the same mechanics but hard and exaggerated). I suspect the volume issue is the main reason you notice discrepancies between Cepero and what I wrote/describe/street guy is doing. Even the first stroke is soft as it does not sweep the entire chord, just the basses.

So stoke 3 the thumb and index move DOWN, however, it is NOT the thumb striking the strings it is the index, and he is getting the thumb UNDER the strings for

stroke 4. Again, he has relatively correct dynamics here but exaggerated up would be explosive, like his rasgueado, and not what he is going for there because of Volume (ie dynamics).

5 is the only spot that is a bit different, he does not do the exaggerated plant golpe like the French gitano, he just does a light golpe (or nothing, leaving a space). What you see as AMI moving down, is NOT striking the strings. It is moving down, but as his dynamics are deliberately soft, it is not audible if he is doing the golpe touch there. Spaces are dangerous for students so I recommend the plant golpe (am down on soundboard…actually it looks like that is what he is doing after the first go). It is important to note that you attribute Hamia erroneous combined stroke 5 to MY stroke 4, which I had to take time to correct earlier. The thing is, in order to achieve the basic plant golpe IN TIME, after the thumb up (stroke 4) the fingers have to sweep across the string if the hand is closed. When the stroke 4 is exaggerated the hand opens and the fingers simply fall downward to the soundboard on 5. For me “stroke” refers to timing positions. The French tutorial was trying to teach the connection between 4 and 5 as a single “mechanic”.

Stroke 6, again, sometimes it is only i up making the sound as AMI is stronger dynamically.

7 is the mute where he sets up the rested thumb on 5th string (the side thumb golpe can’t be achieved due to the Am chord voicing). This tied to 8 and back to 1, are the main reason I said “FINALLY” in my description, because nobody else was doing that thing in any video I saw so far other than the OP street guy. Cepero’s back up guy is also not doing the mute and set up, rather an open down stroke. The final stroke 8 of Cepero, is again i only up, like 2 and 6.

The “jerezano” thing was a joke really, Rumba is often called “Catalana” implying from Barcelona mainly, and Cepero would have rubbed elbows with these guys in Madrid tablaos. I don’t know who first invents the muted stroke etc., but the main point is, if Cepero was doing it, it was already pervasive as “standard” in the way I think of it. Hence my earlier frustration as to not finding people doing it as if it was some super specific thing rather than standard.

Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 26 2023 12:01:43
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 1652
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to Ricardo

It's a shame that flamenco strum doesn't get much attention.
Which fingers is Paco using at 4:10-4:25? Unfortunately you haven't shown in your Paco Falseta Tutorial 8 video how to strum this part.



_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2023 18:35:36
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to devilhand

Right, I teach people to keep basic solea type compas. What paco does there is simpler: only thumb up and fingers down using wrist action. There are little abanicos (p-a-i, p up), generally, between count 1 and 2 (1, triplet-2 up, “&” is am down, 3 index down with golpe etc.) and he uses golpes to accent beats on the specific down strokes he wants (3,6,9,12 generally). There are couple of variations on that but that is the general idea.

Watch at 15:56 starting on count 7 on through the next compas cycle, he is doing the standard Solea or Solea por buleria compas…honestly that is what everyone learning this should be doing until the structure becomes comfortable, and then you can play around with it. In fact, I do show the basic idea the up down strum in 6/8 in my tutorial (at 1:31:35 onward), which is how the jazz guys are perceiving the rhythm. Paco sticks to that mostly as well, and sneaks in Solea proper on occasion, as you see below.



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 28 2023 19:00:32
 
Firefrets

 

Posts: 115
Joined: Mar. 22 2023
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to rafapak

This will get you close ...



  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2023 7:49:44
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to Firefrets

quote:

This will get you close ...


No, or rather it is nothing close to what the guy in the video is actually doing. If you read the whole thread I spent hours, no, DAYS, searching for a correct tutorial and failed. The videos you show are the typical wrong traps. Just watch Cepero and slow it down.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 25 2023 13:26:05
 
machopicasso

 

Posts: 989
Joined: Nov. 27 2010
 

RE: tutorial recommendation (in reply to JasonM

quote:

Actually I was looking for a video tutorial of how Ricardo does it..


There was - and maybe still is - one here: https://www.flamenco-teacher.com/lps?lpv=1023

I just logged in and can still view the lesson that I purchased years ago. But I can't get the videos to play.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jul. 26 2023 4:15:04
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