Foro Flamenco
Posts Since Last Visit | Advanced Search | Home | Register | Login

Today's Posts | Inbox | Profile | Our Rules | Contact Admin | Log Out



Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods and David Serva who went ahead of us too soon.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.





RE: future of flamenco   You are logged in as Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 2 [3] 4 5    >   >>
Login
Message<< Newer Topic  Older Topic >>
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Piwin

quote:

For instance, the "revival" of Breton music in the 70s, spearheaded by artists like Alan Stivell, involved quite a bit of modernization. It's probably fair to say that "what Breton music is supposed to sound like" changed quite a bit during that process.


I remember going to see Gabriel Yacoub perform in a local community centre in Ottawa, Canada in the early 1980s. I was a big fan of his Trad. Arr. LP and also of Alan Stivell’s “Renaissance de la Harpe Celtique” release and was pretty excited to see him. I didn’t buy my ticket in advance and was worried the concert would be sold out. When I got there I realized there would be only about 35 of us in the audience and then I was worried he wouldn’t bother to come on stage.

But he did, and the concert was intimate and great. For all intents and appearances, at least in Canada, the Breton “Revival” was dead. In reality, I’m not sure it ever started. After reading your post I was compelled to break out some early Malicorne and it’s still great, all these years later.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2022 20:22:54
 
orsonw

Posts: 1630
Joined: Jul. 4 2009
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Neil

quote:

On a tangent, Perrate himself has become more experimental recently and has talked about researching the golden age to find fresh ideas for today. He even experimented with lowering his vocal tone by an octave after reading chaconas and other works from the 17th-century, which were the inspiration for his latest album. But in stark contrast, he then chose to work with Rosalia's former producer (Raul Refree) on the record. He said he was convinced because Refree heard the demo and said "This has to smell like wood. We have to make a record that smells like wood." The result is a really interesting record.


Perrate's 2022 'Tres Golpes' album experimental and puro at the same time? e.g.


  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2022 20:27:22
 
Neil

 

Posts: 78
Joined: Oct. 29 2018
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to orsonw

quote:


Perrate's 2022 'Tres Golpes' album experimental and puro at the same time e.g.


It sounds lovely on vinyl.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 4 2022 20:36:56
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Neil

quote:

Nobody is telling you you have to like anything, and nobody is being a Nazi.


well, that's good to know... but I also don't need to be told what I "need"
quote:

We need new flamenco, urban flamenco, fusion flamenco, indie flamenco, dance flamenco, avant garde flamenco, experimental flamenco or whatever other labels they come up with.


do "we"? sounds like a lot of marketing gimmicks to me. When a new form of music emerges it usually gets a name, but often it seems like what is happening is new "labels" are being invented before the music they are supposed to describe has barely emerged let alone developed sufficient to warrant a name...

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 20 2022 15:11:22
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

ORIGINAL: Stu

I worked with Rodrigo y Gabriela years ago. And they were very clear that they 'don't play flamenco' they are aware of the great tradition of flamenco and what they are doing isnt it


I recall them saying this years ago in an interview on cable TV.


they also state it quite clearly in the sleeve notes to one of their albums (maybe their first?) someone gave me.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 20 2022 15:12:31
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Neil

quote:

Before the pandemic back in 2018/19, I was working with some uni students in Granada and they were all raving about Rosalia etc.


Rosalia not only captivates students and others who don't know better with her popster image. The Washington Post's music critic, Chris Richards, was breathlessly captivated by her during her recent performance in Washington, DC.

Chris Richards, in my opinion, is just this side of being a fool. His gush-piece over Rosalia was downright embarrassing. A couple of quotes from Richards demonstrate his lack of taste in music, as well as his need for a remedial course in English expression, to wit:

“In Rosalia’s music, futurism doesn’t feel like anticipation or prophesy so much as a test of our temporal condition’s tensile strength, a means of living out the fullness of our imaginations.”

And if that were not enough, there’s this:

“Her set opened with ‘Saoko,” a song whose sputtery jazz intro quickly gave way to a pendulous baseline that sounded like a spaceship parallel parking on the roof.”

And of course there was his inevitable reference to, as he termed it, her “neo-flamenco.”

What utter drivel. Rosalia's excuse is she appeals to a group of primarily teenage philistines. Richards's excuse is he is an adult posing as the world's oldest teenager.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 29 2022 15:35:05
 
silddx

Posts: 131
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

As Frank Zappa said ...

“Most rock journalism is people who can’t write interviewing people who can’t talk for people who can’t read,”
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2022 13:41:06
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

Good post Bill! The anger is palpable! 😄 I'm with you
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2022 19:04:48
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 3402
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Rosalia not only captivates students and others who don't know better with her popster image. The Washington Post's music critic, Chris Richards, was breathlessly captivated by her during her recent performance in Washington, DC.

Chris Richards, in my opinion, is just this side of being a fool. His gush-piece over Rosalia was downright embarrassing. A couple of quotes from Richards demonstrate his lack of taste in music, as well as his need for a remedial course in English expression, to wit:

“In Rosalia’s music, futurism doesn’t feel like anticipation or prophesy so much as a test of our temporal condition’s tensile strength, a means of living out the fullness of our imaginations.”

And if that were not enough, there’s this:

“Her set opened with ‘Saoko,” a song whose sputtery jazz intro quickly gave way to a pendulous baseline that sounded like a spaceship parallel parking on the roof.”

And of course there was his inevitable reference to, as he termed it, her “neo-flamenco.”

What utter drivel. Rosalia's excuse is she appeals to a group of primarily teenage philistines. Richards's excuse is he is an adult posing as the world's oldest teenager.


Have you sent your review of his review to the Washington Post? You should! I assume they have a letters-to-the-editor page?

I was trapped in a car for over an hour with a Spanish lady (not a teenager) who gave me a lecture on Rosalia that seemed to be repeated verbatim from her record company's PR department (or perhaps some newspaper's idiot music critic), all about how she had "turned flamenco upside down", revolutionised it, reinvented it etc. etc., blah, blah, blah....

I was very diplomatic, at one point I said "Rosalia? is she the one that uses auto-tune?"
She said "what's auto-tune?"
I said, "something pop stars use to make their voice sound in tune."

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2022 19:20:47
 
Piwin

Posts: 3451
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Stu

quote:

The anger is palpable! 😄 I'm with you


Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to the dark side. Ergo, if you don't like Rosalía, you're Darth Vader. QED.

_____________________________

"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 30 2022 20:52:47
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to mark indigo

Gentlemen,

Appreciate the comments regarding my screed against Rosalia and the Washington Post music critic Chris Richardson. There are voices, a few on the Foro, who claim that such performers are "vital" to keeping flamenco alive. I don't believe it, but if that were the case, perhaps it would be better off dead.

I still think that flamenco will exist in the form that we know it for a small niche of aficionados, long after it has disappeared as a recognized genre to a rapidly diminishing public. If it exists at all though, it will be no thanks to ignorant music critics.

@silddx: Thanks for the Zappa quote. Very appropriate.

@Stu: There may have been a bit of anger, but more than anything I felt disgust.

@Mark Indigo: Being trapped with that woman extolling the "virtues" of Rosalia must have been like being trapped in purgatory.

@Piwin: No Darth Vader, just disgust, as noted above to Stu.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 16:07:39
 
Stu

Posts: 2076
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

@Stu: There may have been a bit of anger, but more than anything I felt disgust.


Haha Bill.yeah when I wrote anger I knew that wasn't right. But was rushing. So went with it. Your disgust is noted!
It's odd though I feel a similar disgust but ya know what...I've just realised I don't think I've ever even heard a Rosalia song!!! 😄 but I've read lots of comments about her here and elsewhere from proper flamencos.. And I have a good idea how I would feel about her music should I ever listen
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 18:19:40
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

The future of flamenco has more to do with the communities that it came from then the output of current pop stars. If communities where the genre developed continue to maintain the traditions of flamenco music I doubt it will transform into something else.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 18:47:01
 
Escribano

Posts: 6340
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Pgh_flamenco

quote:

If communities where the genre developed continue to maintain the traditions of flamenco music I doubt it will transform into something else.


When I lived in Spain, I cam to think of it as such a community thing. Small groups, in bars late at night. If they die, flamenco goes with them.

_____________________________

Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 18:55:40
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13523
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

I had a discussion with some Cantaores years ago about her. They were somewhat on the fence about her and felt she was “ok” as a singer, and just doing the typical experimental thing that many including Cigala do. So to point out how “skilled” and knowledgeable she was I showed them her malagueña, and they were all impressed:




Then I showed them the original version of that letra and these guys started crying, realizing how great the old maestros really are.



I don’t get what people don’t understand about Rosalia…she is a student like Ottmar leibert who happened to take their mediocre level and become a super commercial success. I was arguing once again the other night about the merits of Autotune. No she does not “need” it, but for cryin out loud it fixes pitch issues. Pena hijo is not computer perfect, but it is not about that. It is about expression and taste. I want to hear Pena Hijo’s version of chicken teriyaki to be objective.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 19:15:31
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

I just listened to her most recent album and, while it’s not something that I’d listen to regularly, it’s also pretty catchy, I don’t mind it. One thing it isn’t is flamenco, but is she really pushing that label or is it being thrust upon her?

I just don’t understand the hatred. She has been attacked more than once on this forum for a perceived lack of talent and ability. Why? How does that hold any bearing on her body of work? Does it not have the right to exist on its own merit?

My take is Rosalía has every right to do as she pleases with her arte and if flamenco can’t handle it, then f*ck flamenco. It’s not her problem. It’s also not the problem of those who enjoy her music. They don’t have any obligations.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 19:38:02
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Escribano

quote:

When I lived in Spain, I cam to think of it as such a community thing. Small groups, in bars late at night. If they die, flamenco goes with them.


That’s kind of how I see it, too. The thing is, there are super talented flamenco artists in Spain who don’t seem to get the foothold that one would expect from a person of their ability. But then, when they do have the opportunity to record a commercially oriented release, they succumb to the antiquated values of whomever is producing their work and release rehashed pablum. The problem is very few seem to have more than a couple of releases in them if they stick with Puro, and people need to earn a living. It’s not lost on them that a hit or two goes a long way towards keeping the flame burning. But producing one seems to be more easily said than done.

If I were Javier Condé or Juan Habichuela Nieto, or the like, I would go to Rosalía with cap in hand and beg her to produce my next release. Ask for a couple of hits, and for the rest to be well produced, yet innovative puro flamenco that doesn’t draw upon the Madrid and Jerez formulaic stuff that is so often done. Maybe with new production sensibilities the next Tauromagia can be produced. Who knows? Sometimes I think flamenco is it’s own worst enemy.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 20:08:15
 
silddx

Posts: 131
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

One thing it isn’t is flamenco, but is she really pushing that label or is it being thrust upon her?

I just don’t understand the hatred. She has been attacked more than once on this forum for a perceived lack of talent and ability. Why? How does that hold any bearing on her body of work? Does it not have the right to exist on its own merit?

My take is Rosalía has every right to do as she pleases with her arte and if flamenco can’t handle it, then f*ck flamenco. It’s not her problem. It’s also not the problem of those who enjoy her music. They don’t have any obligations.


I ENTIRELY agree with this. I really don't dig the idea that artists have some kind of responsibility.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 20:33:08
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to Escribano

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

quote:

If communities where the genre developed continue to maintain the traditions of flamenco music I doubt it will transform into something else.


When I lived in Spain, I cam to think of it as such a community thing. Small groups, in bars late at night. If they die, flamenco goes with them.


Long-established communities in Europe tend to be resilient.

On another note: An Italian commented on a site dedicated to 80s music that he couldn’t find any singers in his regione that were interested in performing AC/DC songs. He lamented that they all sang traditional Italian music.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 21:06:07
 
Pgh_flamenco

 

Posts: 1490
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

ORIGINAL: RobF
My take is Rosalía has every right to do as she pleases with her arte and if flamenco can’t handle it, then f*ck flamenco. It’s not her problem. It’s also not the problem of those who enjoy her music. They don’t have any obligations.


I think we need Ruphus to weigh in on this matter.

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 21:11:19
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

....her body of work? Does it not have the right to exist on its own merit? My take is Rosalía has every right to do as she pleases with her arte and if flamenco can’t handle it, then f*ck flamenco. It’s not her problem.


Rosalia's work indeed has a right to exist on its own merit. And she has every right to do as she pleases with her arte. All with one major caveat, in my opinion. I don't know if she has ever claimed to be in the vanguard of a form of "neo-flamenco" (as the Post music critic termed it), or if the term is thrust upon her by music critics, a Foro member who up-thread claimed she and others are "vital" to keeping flamenco alive, or the woman who trapped Mark Indigo for an hour extolling her virtues in up-ending traditional flamenco.

The caveat is: If she claims to be a member of such a vanguard, or if she allows all of the examples of references to her being in a neo-flamenco vanguard, at least in part, to define her, then she considers that to be part of her body of work. To the extent that that is the case, she and her body of work are fair game for criticism. She cannot produce a fraudulent form that some (including perhaps she herself) mistakenly call flamenco and then claim immunity from criticism.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 21:17:09
 
kitarist

Posts: 1551
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

One thing it isn’t is flamenco, but is she really pushing that label or is it being thrust upon her?


Obviously her PR machine invites it or at least does not discourage it (but based on what I've seen is much more than just not discouraging it). Why - because it conveys instant credibility without earning it - after all, flamenco arte is a recognised world intangible cultural heritage. This is all that's needed as messaging to wider-world cultural nincompoops to start gushing about her sugar pop.

I just found out that our own Peter Manuel (I think he is a member of the foro) published a paper last year on the very subject of Rosalia and flamenco. Here it is, for those interested, for discussion or simply perusal:

"The Rosalía Polemic: Defining Genre Boundaries and Legitimacy in Flamenco"
https://academicworks.cuny.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1360&context=jj_pubs

Also, someone at Virginia Tech wrote a Master's thesis in 2021 on her second album that "demonstrate(s) how flamenco manifests itself in the album in ways that honor(s) past forms and figures of flamenco while also cohabitating with non-flamenco elements in ways that allow(s) it to adapt to the postmodern context of the album and the globalized context of our world. "

Full thesis pdf from here: https://vtechworks.lib.vt.edu/handle/10919/103618

EDIT: Sorry, Bill, looks like I "stepped" on your post with mine.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 21:22:47
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to kitarist

quote:

EDIT: Sorry, Bill, looks like I "stepped" on your post with mine.


They complement each other, Konstantin.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 21:52:36
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to kitarist

quote:

Why - because it conveys instant credibility without earning it - after all, flamenco arte is a recognised world intangible cultural heritage. This is all that's needed as messaging to wider-world cultural nincompoops to start gushing about her sugar pop.


I haven’t followed her career enough to know how much or if she’s been involved in appropriating an association with flamenco as an easy route to credibility or not. What I have read in interviews she’s given is that she has a love and respect for flamenco and it naturally has had an influence on her work as a Spanish artist. I’ve not seen an interview where she personally claims her work is flamenco or that she is a flamenco artist.

I mean, why should she? She’s obviously not stupid and is well aware of the significance of flamenco. To say she is using it as some kind of springboard to bestow legitimacy on her arte just doesn’t seem logical to me. She doesn’t need to do that. She’s won something like eight Grammy Awards and a slew of other major awards based largely on self-produced and self-penned work. She openly endorses and collaborates with other artists of many genres including flamenco. Very few of the major flamenco artists active today would deny her a place at the table. They’d be crazy to, they know success when they see it.

It just seems silly put her down as a no talent lightweight. It shows an unwillingness to look at the big picture. Kind of like putting down rap, when it’s been around as a form for 50 odd years and has roots going back over a century through talking blues to field shouts and calls and beyond. She clearly has an edge. Whether this Foro wants to accept that is another matter, but like her stuff or not, she’s accomplished a hell of a lot artistically in a very short time. I wish her the best.



Also, I want to say just because I disagree with Bill, Konstantin, Ricardo and probably the majority of the people who come on here when it comes to Rosalía doesn’t mean I’m not crazy about you all. I highly respect and value your opinions.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 21:56:39
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

The caveat is: If she claims to be a member of such a vanguard, or if she allows all of the examples of references to her being in a neo-flamenco vanguard, at least in part, to define her, then she considers that to be part of her body of work. To the extent that that is the case, she and her body of work are fair game for criticism. She cannot produce a fraudulent form that some (including perhaps she herself) mistakenly call flamenco and then claim immunity from criticism.


Bill, I don’t know how one could listen to her latest album and call it fraudulent. It’s got nothing to do with flamenco (except for one piece). That journalist who called it neo-flamenco is an idiot. She doesn’t call it flamenco or she’d be an idiot, too. But she’s not. No way.

She also has no obligation to walk around in sack-cloth and apologize to the world for every nitwit that mislabels her arte. It’s not her problem, she has nothing to apologize for, she has a right to create and the rest of the world can do what they want with it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 22:19:04
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

Bill, I don’t know how one could listen to her latest album and call it fraudulent. It’s got nothing to do with flamenco (except for one piece). That journalist who called it neo-flamenco is an idiot. She doesn’t call it flamenco or she’d be an idiot, too. But she’s not. No way. She also has no obligation to walk around in sack-cloth and apologize to the world for every nitwit that mislabels her arte. It’s not her problem, she has nothing to apologize for, she has a right to create and the rest of the world can do what they want with it.


Rob--I didn't call her latest album, or any of her albums, fraudulent. I stated clearly in my post, just above Konstantin's, that I don't know if she has ever claimed to be in the vanguard of a form of "neo-flamenco." What I said was if she has made such a claim, or if she encourages (or at least does not discourage) those who are making such a claim on her behalf (such as her PR team), then to the extent that that is the case, she and her work are fair game for criticism. I used the term "fraudulent" to describe those productions of hers that may be passed off as flamenco by her, her PR team, or others such as ignorant music critics.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 23:15:25
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

I don’t know if she’s ever tried to pass off anything she’s done as flamenco as much as having leveraged flamenco quite a bit in her first album. I think a large amount of the criticism back then was directed towards her “appropriating” Andalusian culture and dress in some of her videos, when she’s from Barcelona. But when I go to Spain a lot of the younger female flamenco artists in Andalusia walk around in their off time wearing thick-soled high top sneakers, lululemon style pants, go clubbing, and participate in modern life just like everyone else of their generation, and no one seems to tell them they’re abandoning their culture. So, there’s a bit of hypocrisy in it.

At any rate, I’m not much of a follower of Rosalía or her music, so I don’t know much about what she says or how her PR machine operates. I do have a lot of respect for her accomplishments, however, and I don’t think she’s a lightweight. I guess I’m just a little tired of the way the modern world has misappropriated the concepts of inclusion, tolerance, and all these other lofty ideals only to become such an exclusionary and reactionary place. Mainly because people keep shoving their (generally limited) worldviews down each other’s throats. Walking around my neighbourhood, which is relatively upscale, sometimes I think I’m from another planet, definitely a different age. I guess I’ve become a bit of a curmudgeon, haha.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 1 2022 23:40:52
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3359
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

Walking around my neighbourhood, which is relatively upscale, sometimes I think I’m from another planet, definitely a different age. I guess I’ve become a bit of a curmudgeon, haha.


Rosalia aside, you might appreciate my curmudgeonly world-view. I have always considered myself a nineteenth century man, or to put it in a modern context, an analog man living in a digital age. I have an aging desk-top computer, but I do not own an I-phone or a cell phone of any type, nor a tablet, nor a Nook or any other digital reader. I have a fairly extensive library of actual books. I wear a mechanical, analog watch and have a print newspaper delivered to my home every morning, where I read it while savoring a cup of coffee.

My ideal life would have been to be the fourth son of 19th century British landed gentry, since the first son inherited the estate, the second son entered the clergy, and the third son was bought an officer's commission in the army. Since there was no place for the fourth son, he was encouraged to go abroad and periodically was sent a sum of money to live at a level appropriate to his station in life, as long as he did not commit acts that would bring discredit and embarrassment to the family. Or if he did, to keep them hidden.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2022 0:30:03
 
RobF

Posts: 1318
Joined: Aug. 24 2017
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

I wear a mechanical, analog watch and have a print newspaper delivered to my home every morning, where I read it while savoring a cup of coffee.


I, too, am an analogue watch guy, and I have a modest collection of American Railroad pocket watches from the turn of the previous century, which I cherish. I’d hoped to gain clarity and wisdom while I advance towards my latter years, but instead I seem to spend a good portion of my time walking around thinking…WTF???
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2022 1:19:35
 
kitarist

Posts: 1551
Joined: Dec. 4 2012
 

RE: future of flamenco (in reply to RobF

quote:

Also, I want to say just because I disagree with Bill, Konstantin, Ricardo and probably the majority of the people who come on here when it comes to Rosalía doesn’t mean I’m not crazy about you all. I highly respect and value your opinions.


Thanks, Rob, same here regardless of which side we end up on on a particular issue here and there.

_____________________________

Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 2 2022 1:52:26
Page:   <<   <   1 2 [3] 4 5    >   >>
All Forums >>Discussions >>General >> Page: <<   <   1 2 [3] 4 5    >   >>
Jump to:

New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software powered by ASP Playground Advanced Edition 2.0.5
Copyright © 2000 - 2003 ASPPlayground.NET

0.109375 secs.