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Did flamenco swallow you up from your previously preferred genre ?   You are logged in as Guest
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joevidetto

 

Posts: 172
Joined: Jun. 15 2013
 

Did flamenco swallow you up from you... 

Just for fun...at what age did you dive deeply into flamenco ?

What genre of music were you playing before, and for how many years ?

Did you ever dive back into your PREVIOUS genre and practice it more than flamenco again ?

Would you say from your first flamenco dive that you pretty much "drowned" in flamenco ? That is, did it become the genre where most of your practice time is spent ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 30 2022 18:08:47
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13292
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

I first heard Paco when I was 14 and at first got more into Al Dimeola. At the time I was a metal head, my band did covers of Metallica Ozzy and Anthrax, but I really learned a lot of Yngwie stuff. Then I discovered RAcer X and got a new band that tried those as covers. REalizing we could not sing that high to save our lives we started writing our own music. That lead me to more pop Beatles etc style, but if you can imagine, with some funky guitar like Nuno BEttencourt with Gilbert type solos LOL. WE wrote songs with very low melodies we could actually sing. After my father passed I got into jazz fusion stuff, and I rediscovered Paco de Lucía thanks to an article in my dad’s studio. I became a flamenco aficionado pretty quickly. In college I was required to grow my nails for a classical guitar degree, by focus was not classical music, it was called “Music Industry”, that was my major. Growing nails reminded me of my dad and I had some weird resentment like if I have to go this route I might as well try to learn some of this flamenco stuff I had been listening to. Since I could not take the “cool” classes for my major until I reached senior year, I went down the flamenco rabbit hole….I was about 19 or 20 at that time.

A few years ago, 2019, I found myself in a frustrating position of having no singer for my gigs. Some egos and simple unavailability forced me to revisit singing. I was shocked to realize the thing we believed as teenagers (you have to be born with a tenor range to sing up high), was false and singing in high keys is a register technique. So using the familiar metal tunes I always wanted to sing, I slowly trained my voice and embarrassed myself on gigs for several months as I adapted the higher range to the Rumba stuff. I also sang a bit of flamenco for my wife dancing but it was very very hard, so if she was not the dancer I would not do that, even now. But I got some good feedback, but it was very scary I admit. Now I have some respect from a couple singers I know and keep studying….but honestly this whole thing has truly pulled me back into that metal music world. I plan on getting a new electric guitar in the near future and try to do a metal cover band for fun. I turn up for some karaoke for fun and shock people singing helloween, maiden or Priest type stuff, it is hilarious honestly. But yes I feel myself drifting away from the traditional flamenco thing. The death of my mentor last year (Jesus Montoya) is also very depressing. So who knows what the future holds, I just go with the flow now.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2022 0:05:02
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1898
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

The death of my mentor last year (Jesus Montoya) is also very depressing.


¡Ole Ricardo! The death of my mentor, José Millán, turned me off flamenco a bit too. Now I play more blues and slide and only listen to cante en directo.

Curious that both of us have made CDs of our mentors

Un abrazo

Morante
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2022 16:05:38
 
Mark2

Posts: 1692
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

My oldest brother had the musical talent in the family. He had perfect pitch and was a gigging jazz drummer in high school. He joined the marines, and on leave he asked me if I was interested in playing music, and thought we could get a band together when he got out. He was killed in an accident, and his death was a turning point in my life. I decided I was going to be a professional musician. I was 16. By the time I was 21, I was playing in full time touring bands, reading music and replicating the guitar parts of the hits we played. I ended up playing with maybe a dozen bands over the next five years, and being a sideman for any kind of gig I could. I was reaching the point where I was playing with people who also played in name acts. I just needed a break to get to the next level. It didn’t happen.

At 26, I started with flamenco. I continued doing mostly rock and latin gigs, but also started getting solo flamenco gigs. At one point a band I played with was opening for famous musicians. I booked a solo wedding gig and it conflicted with a concert the band had. I did the solo gig-it was five times the money and I had two kids to support. I lost interest in that band, and electric guitar gigs.

So I pursued the solo gig thing and in 1988 opened for the gipsy kings at the fillmore. I saw the opportunity to form a rumba group. I also started playing for dance, and spent about four years three times a week playing at the school. I started getting local dance gigs, but the pay was so poor I couldn’t justify the time it took. By this time the rumba band was getting well paid corporates.

I had a small business and I started concentrating more energy on it, and it became successful. It got to the point where taking a phone call brought in more money than doing any kind of gig, so I gradually stopped gigging.

Today, at 64 I’m playing a lot. Almost all my practice time is devoted to flamenco. I’ve been spending a lot of time listening to cante, trying to figure out how to accompany professional singers by really learning the melodies -it’s the last stop on a long train ride. No inclination other than to learn and enjoy. My electric guitars are gathering dust. Once in a while I’ll buy a new one, or an amp to see if the stoke returns. So far nope. Swallowed….
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2022 18:43:10
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to Ricardo

I like the way you go with the flow of live Ricardo, a gifted musician like you, always working hard, with still an open eye for new things in your live.
RacerX, from the flamenco teacher forum till now. Wonder with you what the future brings. Keep having fun!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2022 20:08:26
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1552
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to Mark2

I was into and still am into all sorts of music, most of my teens and early 20's were spent listening to sound garden, NIN, smashing pumpkins, nirvana, foo fighters, pearl jam. Didn't pick up a guitar until i was 18 and spent pretty much spent all that time hanging out and learning from some of my other friends who were musicians and gigging at the time, got competent, learned to play most of the songs off the 'color and the shape' and 'Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness'

When i turned 21, I first saw flamenco on one of the BBC shows, and as far as I remember it was Tomatito, and I was blown away. I picked up Juan Martins books and Aaron Gilmartins DVD and tried to teach myself.

I ended up going to saint nazaire, france for an internship and met my first flamenco teacher Erwan LeBrenn, he took lessons in Jerez during the 60's and 70's and showed me a lot of the basics and material for solea, seguiriyas, tientos/tangos etc.

I came back to Ireland after the internship, and ended up on the foro. Thats what prompeted me to going to Gerardo's Course in Sanlucar. Man that was wake up call and it was crushing, felt like i knew nothing about the guitar, the atmosphere was great and the parties but it hit me hard i could never follow note for note what was being done. The subsequent curso's i went to, i took antonio carrions cante accomp class which i found to be very enjoyable. I'll return to the curso sanlucar later

I went to Jerez numerous times and studied with alot of people, learning falsetas for each style, el carbonero, nino jero, jesus agarrado, miguel salado, Juan Manuel Moneo.

Last few times i've gone back have been better, I can follow the material and pick it up. also had a few talks with teachers and basically showed me a few short cuts on jerez style and how falsetas evolve or get changed.

I had a hiatus of about 5 yrs playing, as my heart wasnt in it and needed to sort my life and career out. These days, i have less time to play but more money, but i enjoy practice and working cante tracks and when the opportunity presents dancers.

2019 was the last occasion i was at Gerardo's curso, and while it was tough to follow, the material made much more sense and I could work it out later. Looking forward to heading back this year and hopefully see some familiar faces.

Most days if driving in my car its flamenco, and mostly old cante, last few weeks have just been re-listening to paco's discography, its and amazing body of work...this week i'm going to listen to gerardo nunez's and next week tomatitos albums.

I don't think flamenco has replaced all the music i listen to, but its a large part.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2022 22:40:58
 
JasonM

Posts: 1783
Joined: Dec. 8 2005
From: Baltimore

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to henrym3483

quote:

When i turned 21, I first saw flamenco on one of the BBC shows, and as far as I remember it was Tomatito, and I was blown away. I picked up Juan Martins books



I find it kind of amusing sometimes that I’m just this white American dude that almost feels like I grew up with gitano relatives or something., been listening to flamenco over half my life (I was 20 when I started). Even though most of my passion is gone, I come back and it feels so nostalgic, like I grew up with it!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 2 2022 23:19:28
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

For me flamenco was the reason to pick up the guitar.
The chromatic harmonica I played in my yonger days, but I did not like the fact I could not acompany myself like on a piano or an accordeon.
When I bought my first cd player I bought also a few cd’s to try it.
Amongst them was a cd from Paco Peña: “flamenco”.
I could not believe somebody could get that out of a guitar by himselve alone.
So I started studying guitar. First by myself, then with a teacher who could play flamenco. I was lucky Paco Peña just opened the first conservatory flamenco in Holland, so there where a few teachers who knew flamenco.

Never played the harmonica again till last year, I was curious if I still could play it after 35 years. Bought a nice one and tried it.
It took me a few hours, but still can play the easy stuff. 😃

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2022 0:36:01
 
Fluknu

 

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 11 2021
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

You guys have amazing stories with Flamenco and music. It's really inspiring to read.

For me music was one of the most important thing in my life since young age. At around 6 y.o. I discovered Meedle from Pink Floyd and I spent hours listenning to these amazing sounds, scary and trippy (my father had the record but had never listened to it). Then I listenned to all sorts of things from AC/DC to Madness, Police, Genesis, led Zep and so on. Beeing from Europe I was more into the brit Rock. I started the guitar at 16 and went direction funk /rock/jazz. In my 20's I listenned to a lot of classical ranging from Baroque to modern. I went also deep into Indian classical music. And some Arabic music (Farid el Atrach). Sitar, Oud, all the near guitar sounds did draw my attention.
I also got taught west african guitar playing in a Gannhean band in London. We had quite a few successful gigs around England.
Then at 23 I stopped playing and started studying and went into other stuff. But listenning and expanding my horizon was always important. Got into Varese, Reich, and so on.
At 46 I decided to pick up my telecaster again. I had more time and it was such a pleasure. But I couldn't go back to funk, rock or jazz. My ear enjoyed these styles but I was just out of it. I decided to study something I had never done before and as I returned from a trip to the states where a friend Introduced me to country, I started learning picking. Really enjoyed that.
Then one evening, after lots of beers, a guitar player I know told me that if I wanted new techniques I should go into flamenco. He said we overate the left hand and that flamenco has amazing things for the right hand. So off I go on youtube and start with tutos. But I don't enjoy flamenco at that time. Of course I've had my moment long ago with paco, al and John (even saw them in Montreux), but that was it.
Then...it was just the Flamenco Rabbit Hole: started listening, enjoying, discovering. found two teachers around me. And here I am. When I practice, it's flamenco.
When listenning it's flamenco or things from the past I missed at the time (can be classical or rock).
But It's hard for me these days. I'd like to accompany cante but there's no singers here in Switzerland. So from time to time I get really frustrated and think that I should do something else. But I can't. I always go back to my study of compas and falsetas. It's such an amazing thing.

I just come back from two weeks in Andalousia with the family. I've seen five flamenco shows. It really made me think a lot. Two concerts were great. One at Torres macarena in Séville. Really good. And another who should have been crapy, in Cordoba. A local band playing in a restaurant for tourist. But they brought fire to the place. In Cordoba I also saw Alberto Lucena, which is an amazing player. But honnestly, I did not dig it. He's so good that your overfloowed with notes.

In the end, I think I know now what I like in my flamenco. It has to be live, rough and rural, with lots of attention to all players, and I have to like the singer.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 3 2022 9:49:59
 
mrstwinkle

 

Posts: 490
Joined: May 14 2017
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

Only discovered flamenco abut 6 years ago - in my mid 40s.

Before that
In my 20s, 70s rock and stuff like Alice in Chains / King's X
In my 30s, stuff like Chemical brothers,
Late 30s some stuff like Jack White and Skrillex.
Nowadays mostly flamenco apart from thumpy bass dance stuff in the gym. Or podcasts.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 4 2022 12:26:28
 
Fluknu

 

Posts: 135
Joined: Jan. 11 2021
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

It was really intersting to read all these posts. The fact that some of us dive into this music seems quite obscure. Of course, some have direct links due to parents or birth place. But for some other it makes nos ense :)
Probably the richness developped for the right hand is a trigger. I don't know.

And you Joevidetto, what's your story?

_____________________________

Fluknu
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2022 8:35:56
 
chester

Posts: 842
Joined: Oct. 29 2010
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

i've been playing guitar since i was a kid (not a prodigy by any means or anything). club/bar gigs, event background music, etc.

i started studying flamenco because i thought i can pick up some extra cash by accompanying dance classes.

then i learned that they got paid very little, if at all.

after seeing musicians who are much better than i'll ever be struggling financially i figured i should probably find another way to make a living.

i certainly was swallowed up for a while. it was very exciting and challenging to learn. i still remember the first time i was able to pick out which palo a song was, or finally clicking with how to groove por buleria or seguirilla (my favorite palos).

at some point i felt like i understood flamenco "enough" and went back to listening to music that i like for the fun of it rather than to learn it. so now i get "swallowed" sporadically by misc pieces of music from all sorts of genres when something catches my ear.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 6 2022 21:12:12
 
etta

 

Posts: 321
Joined: Jan. 20 2010
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to joevidetto

I started flamenco with no knowledge, instruction, or advice when I was a teenager in the 1950's. By chance or luck I was able to buy a great guitar from Carlos Montoya; I did not comprehend what a wonderful guitar it was; I had never seen a real flamenco guitar except on album covers by Montoya and Sabicas. I hand carved my first capo from looking at those photos. No one I knew in Tennessee had a clue about flamenco. Twenty years later I fell for a five string banjo and the tactile facility from flamenco guitar helped me become a "state champion" five-string banjo player. Conversely, when I returned to flamenco after retirement, the facility with the banjo helped me become a better guitarist, plus I discovered a wealth of info and instruction on the computer. Now I enjoy both guitar and banjo and the move from one to another usually goes very well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 8 2022 15:44:02
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1898
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to etta

Seems that most people think of flamenco as flamenco guitar. Curious.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 8 2022 15:55:14
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to Morante

@Morante, how was your first encounter with flamenco?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 8 2022 18:04:16
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1898
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to gerundino63

Well, I escaped from home to go to Unviersity, where I founded a group of rock and roll. At the end of the first year, I went with the other guitarrist to work as waiter in the South of Ingland, to have money to travel. He headed to Italy, I htichhiked through France to Cataluña. (I thought I was in Spain )

Spent 3 weeks in a camping, but caught the train to Barcelona often. There, I found the Plaza de Toros, which had a corrida on Sunday. I went and was so impressed that I became a lifelong aficionado.

Knew nothing about flamenco until cheap flights to Málaga began. There there was some tourist flamenco, but I liked the cante.

In Ireland, there was a Club of Guitar, there I met someone who wanted to learn flamenco. I did not want to play Irish music in catholic bars where half of the audience llevaba pistols, so we began to study together. There was no internet, so it was not easy.

Then I began to visit Andalucía on holiday, always looking for a corrida, but the cante crept in on the side. So the Plaza de Málaga and the Peña de Juan Breva, Plaza de Córdoba and the Tablao de Merengue or the bar de la Bulería.

Then the feria de Jerez.

Bit by bit el cante crept in, but I remain aficonado de los toros.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2022 16:05:11
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to Morante

Nice story Morante, thanks for that.
Did you ever try to learn to sing?
Seems you where adventorous enough!

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2022 17:21:44
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1898
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Did flamenco swallow you up from... (in reply to gerundino63

quote:

Did you ever try to learn to sing?


Have no voice, except for Blues. I leave such visions to Ricardo
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2022 17:49:20
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