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If you had to interrogate me for information, and can’t get me to crack, Rosalia’s new Chicken Teriyaki song played on repeat would do it. Especially if I’m hungry .
By what bloodlines or lineages are you assuming they (Rosalia and Ketchup) are “more flamenco” than you or I? Or is it only because they are Spanish? Because doing a sh1tty version of malagueña does not make someone more flamenco just because they are Spanish.
By what bloodlines or lineages are you assuming they (Rosalia and Ketchup) are “more flamenco” than you or I? Or is it only because they are Spanish? Because doing a sh1tty version of malagueña does not make someone more flamenco just because they are Spanish.
Las Ketchup are the daughters of Tomate: “All members of the group are daughters of flamenco musician Juan Manuel Muñoz Expósito, best known by his stage name, El Tomate (Spanish for "The Tomato").”
Rosalía was born and raised in Spain, studied music at the Taller de Músics for six years in Barcelona and Cameron was her inspiration from an early age for pursuing a career in music.
I’m not suggesting the music of Las Ketchup and Rosalía is Flamenco, but they do have a better pedigree than Foro members.
They don't perform flamenco and the music they do make is largely crap, but they "have a better pedigree than Foro members." What kind of fourth grade elementary school gibberish is that? To date, that line wins the prize for the most immature fourth grader's attempt at profundity yet. As if "pedigree" trumps talent. I guess it does to someone who cannot distinguish between the two.
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
That’s the thing, whether she has flamenco pedigree or not, this Chicken Teryaki stuff should stand on its own. And I don’t think it does. To me it sounds ridiculous lol. Maybe it’s more of a Euro flavor that I don’t get personally being in the U.S
ORIGINAL: Morante There are some people on this Foro who are accepted by this culture and you are not one of them.
Your acceptance into their culture is probably not what you think it is. Years ago a Foro member, who spent many years in Spain among Flamencos, was invited to perform at a concert that was put on by a Flamenco family. The song he played was not a Flamenco piece.
To be clear this discussion is about authenticity, not talent and it is within the context of people who grew up immersed in a culture and its music as opposed to those who did not.
ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco To be clear this discussion is about authenticity, not talent
That clarification does not change the essence of your claim that "They don't perform flamenco and the music they do make is largely crap, but they "have a better pedigree than Foro members." as Bill phrased it.
If you wanna claim that, fine, but this is boring and ridiculous. The criticisms are not because of misunderstanding you - it is clear enough what you are claiming.
I often look at videos and comments posted by mostly Spanish flamenco guitarists on a facebook group. Rosalia is a person who they are very divided on, but it seems the majority can't stand her, and the idea that she is "accepted" by the culture is perhaps overstated.
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pgh_flamenco
quote:
ORIGINAL: gerundino63
Yes, and I know how to fix dikes and walk on wooden shoes.
So can I, but that doesn’t make me Dutch. Flamenco is a culture and if you’re not accepted by that culture you’re not Flamenco.
Flamenco is a culture and if you’re not accepted by that culture you’re not Flamenco.
Ironic you think you have the right idea here when you are not part of the culture yourself even, so how the F would you know either way?
Anyway, it is true there are certain members that don’t let any but a select few in. By that token, M. Agujeta did not consider anyone other than himself “flamenco” after a certain point. Being let into an elite group or clan does not exclude you from having respect in the genre totally. Claiming “it doesn’t mean what you think it means” to Morante is ridiculous. I feel bad for that one Foro member you referred to was under the impression he or she was not welcome, but honestly it is not always like that. And to make a sweeping statement about the entire foro (presumably because they are predominantly English speakers) in comparison to a couple of pop artists is totally off base.
Pointless discussion IMHO, and ultimately a self-fulfilling prophecy. Discussions about "authenticity" almost always are. As per usual, I'll be making a comparison with languages (sorry ). If you want to say that Joseph Conrad is not an "authentic" English-language author, dismissing all of his life decisions as if they mattered nothing and retaining only the fact that he was born in Poland, then that's your choice, but you'd be missing out on some high-quality writing that puts to shame many authors "born and raised" with the English language. If there are people that still hold to those trivialities as something important and that still choose to reduce human beings to a small set of characteristics given at birth, dismissing everything else - life choices, etc. - that make you who you are, then that's their problem, not yours. Just get on with the business of perfecting your art and don't worry about the dimwits out there who judge you based on characteristics given at birth.
And to add to that, you know that bit about musicians being absolutely certain they can tell what instrument is being played only to then do a blind test and be shown that they don't know jackshit and it's just their own biases speaking? The same thing applies to language. I've (informally) tested it on dozens of people. But you can do it yourself: assuming you live in a country that speaks the language you grew up with, next time you go down to a bar or some place where you meet strangers from your area, speak your native language as you always would, but when people ask you to introduce yourself a bit more, make up a BS background story. Say you're from another country and you only moved here as an adult, that your name is X, something that sounds foreign. Then just watch as people's biases kick in and they hallucinate differences out of thin air: "ah, your English is great but I could tell you had a slight accent". It never fails. Do that, and it will cure you of this illusion that the impressions of "natives" are a reliable gauge of what is "authentic" and what is not. And that's not to judge those people too harshly of course. After all that's just how we all are, and it takes constant work to overcome that. But the point is: that's their problem, not yours. The only thing you can do is get to the point where they wouldn't recognize your art as foreign if you played it in a blind test. Beyond that we're just talking about their own biases and that's their problem, not yours. If you reach that point and someone still things Rosalia or Las Ketchup are "more flamenco" than you, they're the morons, not you.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
That clarification does not change the essence of your claim that "They don't perform flamenco and the music they do make is largely crap, but they "have a better pedigree than Foro members." as Bill phrased it.
If you wanna claim that, fine, but this is boring and ridiculous. The criticisms are not because of misunderstanding you - it is clear enough what you are claiming.
I never claimed their music was “crap.” It was clear the poster didn’t understand my point so I offered clarification.
I’m not sure why you are so upset about this. If you don’t want to be involved in this discussion don’t comment. Simple... ;-)
Flamenco is a culture and if you’re not accepted by that culture you’re not Flamenco.
Ironic you think you have the right idea here when you are not part of the culture yourself even, so how the F would you know either way?
Anyway, it is true there are certain members that don’t let any but a select few in. By that token, M. Agujeta did not consider anyone other than himself “flamenco” after a certain point. Being let into an elite group or clan does not exclude you from having respect in the genre totally. Claiming “it doesn’t mean what you think it means” to Morante is ridiculous. I feel bad for that one Foro member you referred to was under the impression he or she was not welcome, but honestly it is not always like that. And to make a sweeping statement about the entire foro (presumably because they are predominantly English speakers) in comparison to a couple of pop artists is totally off base.
Flamenco palos are performed at weddings, funerals and other occasions. My point is that there is a big difference between a person who came from that culture and can perform songs in those social settings as compared to people who can’t.
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