Aprendiendo Espanol

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Aprendiendo Espanol

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Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

Aprendiendo Espanol

I have been trying to learn more Spanish, as it's grown kind of stagnant lately. I wonder if it might be good to make a section here that is for Spanish speaking, so that we all can learn a little.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 2:15:36

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Buena idea Miguel! Este foro es para aprender todo acerca del flamenco, y como se canta en español, podria ser de utilidad para los que no hablan español...especialmente los que quieren aprender la letra.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 2:44:23

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Tendrian que hacer un preceptoral que se trata de como usar los acentos.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 4:27:23

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Just some early morning thoughts:

I like the idea of using Spanish on the foro but think it will offer little as a learning aid. The Spanish entered by the pupils will tend to be poor and thus for others just reinforce bad habits.
And if it is then corrected by non fluent speakers further imperfections will be learnt.
I think to be successful / useful you must have native Spanish speaker input – preferably Spaniards who want to learn English. Do we have any visiting the foro regularly?

How about an attempt to link Spanish flamencos who are interested in learning English with .. vice versa? Then they could communicate by email and anything interesting from such contact could be posted here.
__________
When I used email to improve my Spanish always the communications were presented in English and Spanish (as here) This helped a lot with the learning process. Would it help to do that here?

Cuando he usado email para mejorar mi español siempre mis comunicaciones han hecho entrega de ingles y español (como aquí). Esto me lo ayudaba mucho con el proceso de aprender. ¿No estaría una buena idea que podemos hacerlo aqui?
__________
Warning as can be seen my spanish is far from perfect

If there are specific cante that people would like translated I can certainly get my Spanish contacts-family to help. But it should be remembered that cante translated directly will make little sense. It is more an exercise of interpreting meaning and thus needs flamenco knowledge and will give variable results - but I would do my best. I remember Kate posted an excellent translation recently.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 7:27:02

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Not a bad idea, if people aren't too lazy to write it twice. One advantage email has for me is that MS Word is my editor and can spellcheck a lot for me... and add in the accent's I don't know the keyboard shortcuts for.

BTW:
How are you making the n+tilde?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 14:14:17

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

In one of these sections around here, there is a list of all the ASCII symbols I believe. However I could never get it to work.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 15:52:54

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Exitao)

Exitao if you have a windows distribution disk you can load the spanish character set. An icon allows you to change language keyboard instantly.

Then you can prepare your text with all the accents and ~ s within word and simply paste to the foro window.

Word will even spell check a para in english followed by a para in spanish (u must load the dictionery of course).

The keyboard has some differences from the keys u r used to but you will soon find them all. I'm sure microsoft offer the key layout on their site or even on your distribution cd.

Ñ and ñ are where the ; and :are. ¿ and ? are the underline and plus. Accents are added by pressing the single quote and then the vowel you want to accent (on a uk keyboard)
enjoy

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 15 2006 19:21:13

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

I do have the language bar and I already had International Spanish in my list of installed languages. I'll have to check the IME documentation for the Spanish keyboard.

Thanx

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2006 1:33:50

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

a couple of years ago I dated a girl who wanted me to teach her spanish. she spent a lot of time at my house, so what I did was buy a roll of masking tape and labeled EVERYTHING in my house in spanish. windows, chairs, oven, stove, carpet...you name it! I also put "el" or "la" to help her recognize which words are masculin and which are feminine. I also wrote the words as they sound, that way she would learn to pronounce the word properly. Example: La toalla (the towel) was spelled: La twaya. Its amazing how many words you can learn when you look at them everyday. Its like they get burned into your brain without you doing much work.

I then told to practise such phrases as: I would like a(n) _________, pass me the_______, where is the_________.

I think its important to first work with nouns and phrases that are used in everyday conversation. This build confidence.

Si todos ustedes se usfuerzan tanto para aprender a tocar flamneco, quiere decir que ya tienen la disciplina necesaria, y ahora solo hay que aplicar esa misma disciplina al español! buena suerte!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 16 2006 2:01:19

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 15:37:45

duende

Posts: 3053
Joined: Dec. 15 2003
From: Sweden

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

i would like a spanish section. for learning.

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This is hard stuff!
Don't give up...
And don't make it a race.
Enjoy the ray of sunshine that comes with every new step in knowledge.

RON

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 17 2006 16:26:43

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to duende)

OK it is not cante but easy to practise on.

Sherlock Holmes y el Dr. Watson se fueron a pasar unos días de acampada a un camping. Tras una buena cena y una botella de vino, se desearon buenas noches y se acostaron en sus respectivos sacos.
Horas mas tarde, Holmes se despertó y llamó con el codo a su fiel amigo:
- Watson, mira el cielo y dime, ¿qué ves? Watson contestó:
-Veo millones de estrellas...
- Y éso, ¿qué te indica? - volvió a preguntar Holmes.
Watson pensó por un minuto y plenamente decidido a impresionar a su amigo con sus dotes deductivas contestó:
- Desde un punto de vista astronómico, me indica que existen millones de galaxias y potencialmente, por lo tanto, billones de planetas.
Astrológicamente hablando, me indica que Saturno esta en conjunción con Leo.
Cronológicamente, deduzco que son aproximadamente las 3:15 de la madrugada.
Y a usted, ¿qué le indica mi querido Sherlock?.
Tras un corto silencio, Holmes habló:
- Watson, cada día eres más gilipollas. Nos han robado la tienda de campaña.

Mi cante pronto amigos

Should we ask Simon for a section if we are going to translate cante as a learning method???

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 9:21:37

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

Should we ask Simon for a section if we are going to translate cante as a learning method???

I love this idea - I am often wondering about cante lyrics, and think this would be a really useful learning aid for those of use who want to learn Spanish.

However I think Flyeogh has a good point - we would need to be careful not to teach each other bad habits, poor grammar etc!

Sometimes I think its nice not to know, but sometimes when you hear such passionate singing you need to know what it is about! I often try to translate lyrics with my dictionary and then wonder if I have interpreted correctly. For example the live version of PDL's 'Solo quiero caminar' from One Summer Night - I translated this to mean 'I only want to walk'?! I have no idea if that's what it actually means.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 9:33:34

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Romanza)

quote:

'I only want to walk'?!

You could be right and you could be wrong. The problem I have with translating cante is to gain the meaning and for this I must listen as well as read. And at the end of the day it is only my interpretation.

I guess if you are just starting out you need to acquire a volcabulary and a literal translation gives you a start. From there I would like to see people giving opinions on the intentions of the author. For example is Pdl talking literally (pasear, andar, viajar) or in the abstract (pasar tiempo). Sorry I don't have the CD. Romanza can you give us the first few lines here?

But guys and gails we must participate if this is going to work. Miguel and Duende give us your best spanish! Your favourite cante, or something. We already have Lionel ready to help out.

I'm working on a Camaron at the moment but it is tricky. Lionel when I get there any help would be appreciated.

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 10:01:15

flyeogh

Posts: 729
Joined: Oct. 13 2004

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

El Simon y el Ron por favor gritar si aquí no lo es bueno.

Here my trans of Sherlock:

Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson went to pass some days camping. After a good dinner and a bottle of wine, they wished each other goodnight and went to sleep in their respective sleeping bags.
Hours later, Holmes awoke and prodded his faithful friend with his elbow:
- Watson, look at the sky and tell me what you see.
- What I can see - answered Watson
- I see millions of stars.
- And that, what does it indicate? – asked Holmes.
Watson thought for a minute, decided to impress his friend with his powers of deduction and answered:
- From the astronomy point of view, it indicates the existence of millions of galaxies and thus potentially billions of planets.
- Astrologically speaking to me I see that Saturn is in conjunction with Leo.
- Chronologically I deduce that it is approximately 3:15 in the morning.
- And to you, what does it indicate Sherlock my friend?.
After a short silence, Holmes said:
- Watson, each day you are more stupid. They have stolen our tent!!

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nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 10:05:12

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to flyeogh)

quote:

- Watson, each day you are more stupid. They have stolen our tent!!

Very good, muy bien! That made me laugh!

quote:

Romanza can you give us the first few lines here?

I find it difficult to hear what he says, but I did have a look online. The first lyrics are: 'Yo solo quiero caminar, como camina el rio hacia la mar'. I found this translation: 'Single I want to walk, as rio walks towards the sea'. Oh, the romance!!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 10:30:14

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Theres a free Spanish to English and English to Spanish translation service here:

http://www.freetranslation.com/

It works okay for the odd brief translation, but its fairly literal, and grammar isn't its strong point.

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 16:24:15

JBASHORUN

Posts: 1839
Joined: Jan. 23 2005

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Romanza)

quote:

The first lyrics are: 'Yo solo quiero caminar, como camina el rio hacia la mar'.

Here's what the online translator said:

'I alone want to walk, like the rio toward the sea walks'

Not sure if thats any more accurate.

Jb

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 22 2006 16:39:55

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to JBASHORUN)

quote:

quote:

quote:

The first lyrics are: 'Yo solo quiero caminar, como camina el rio hacia la mar'.

Here's what the online translator said:

'I alone want to walk, like the rio toward the sea walks'

Not sure if thats any more accurate.

I would think 'solo' would mean 'only' in this case. 'Caminar' literally means 'to walk' but 'el camino' can be translated as 'the path', 'walkway', or even 'the way.'
Considering that los gitanos are/were a nomadic group, caminar/vivir are almost the same, or at least, caminar is their way of life - whether they travel by foot, horse or wagon...
This is why so much Flamenco feels like it's actually moving.

My translation, while less literal would be:
"I only want to travel, the way the river travels to the sea."

I've noticed that a lot of Flamenco lyrics don't make grammatical sense, but the lyrics seem to make sense in a visual/emotional sort of way...

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 1:22:44

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 4:58:35

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

"I only want to travel, the way the river travels to the sea."

Even more poignant! Beautiful lyrics.

Now, continuing the walking theme, what about the Gipsy Kings - Caminando por la calle (Yo te vi)

A walk for the street???!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 8:51:37

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

Watson, cada día eres más gilipollas

I grew up speaking Mexican spanish. So I've never heard of this word "gilipollas". I gathered that it means dumb or stupid, but what does it ACTUALLY mean?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 11:14:27

Kate

Posts: 1827
Joined: Jul. 8 2003
From: Living in Granada, Andalucía

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to fevictor)

It means someone who is a jerk, or in English we would say ' a ****' which is almost a better translation as my guess is that comes from the word 'polla' being slang for '****' or ' penis' if I can say that here

Kate

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 14:22:45

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Shroomy,
thanks for the information about the solo and the solo with the accent. Tell me something, though, I thought that the accent is usually the 2nd to last syllable, so solo without the accent would be pronounced the same? Or is there something different or more subtle going on here?

By the way, you've never heard Solo Quiero Caminar? That's one of Paco's biggest songs, amigo! :)

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 14:46:32

Guest

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 21:48:03

Tomás Jiménez

Posts: 235
Joined: Feb. 24 2006

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to flyeogh)

Not convinced about this ::: if you learn Spanish you will be able to understand all the flattering coments that María José and I exchange about the guitarists in the class.

Tomás

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 22:58:30

Miguel de Maria

Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Thanks for the info, that is something I would maybe never have realized myself...and they didn't teach it in school!

I think you'll like the song. It really rocks...

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 23 2006 22:58:47

Exitao

Posts: 907
Joined: Mar. 13 2006
From: Vancouver, Canada

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Romanza)

Romanza:

quote:

Now, continuing the walking theme, what about the Gipsy Kings - Caminando por la calle (Yo te vi)

A walk for the street???!

Por and para both mean 'for' but sometimes por also describes a means or a direction.
Por ti = because of,or, by you
Para ti = for you

quote:

Caminando por la calle, yo te vi.

Que un dia me enamore, de ti.

Caminando is the gerund of caminar, to walk. It indicates a progressive tense. In this case it seems past progressive.

quote:

Walking down the street, I saw you.

That one day I fell in love, with you.

(Note: it's not 'that one day' i.e. that specific day, just 'that one day.' It could be that he saw her many times...)

But there was a Gypsy Kings song relevant to El Camino, in fact that was its title:
http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Gipsy-Kings/El-Camino.html

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2006 0:26:51

Romanza

Posts: 296
Joined: Oct. 24 2005

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

quote:

But there was a Gypsy Kings song relevant to El Camino

I love that one too! So that means 'The walk'? Or 'he walks'?

Thank you for this useful information.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2006 9:14:58

fevictor

Posts: 377
Joined: Nov. 22 2005
From: Quepos / Manuel Antonio, Costa Rica

RE: Aprendiendo Espanol (in reply to Miguel de Maria)

Heres some usefull tongue twisters to help you with your "R"s:

say the "R" by rolling the rrrrrr...as in "errre"

"R" con "R" cigarro, "R" con "R" carril, rapido corren los carros cargados de trigo por el ferrocarril.

Too easy? try this one:

Tres tristes tigres tragan trigo en un trigal.

Or this one:

Cuando la caracatrepa trepa, trepan los cuatro caracatrepitos!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Mar. 24 2006 14:48:55