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Deniz

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Joined: Feb. 16 2020
 

Palo names - meaning? 

I was wondering what the meaning behind the palo's names are?

I got told "solea" means "loneliness", not sure if that's right though.
"Seguiriyas" is translated as "followings" by my translation website.
Bulerias?
Fandangos?

Are there meanings behind the names, or are they unique names?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 1 2020 23:21:34
 
kitarist

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

Don't know about meaning, but here's how to remember the spelling of siguiriyas:

- Si, guiri.
- Yas!

What did she agree on? We leave that to the imagination of the reader...

EDIT: However, it is likely more proper to spell it seguiriyas. It is the older name, and 'siguiriyas' seems like a phonetization of an incorrect anglicized pronunciation of 'seguiriyas', in that an English-speaking guiri would pronounce 'se' as 'si'. Rito y Geografia del Cante also spells it 'seguiriyas'.

The google ngrams, however, are inconclusive. one might say the 60s-70s overtaking of seguiriyas by 'siguiriyas' might have to do with the 60s influx of foreigners wanting to learn flamenco, corrupting the spelling and popularizing 'siguiriyas'; however this is the Spanish corpus, so..



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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 1 2020 23:52:56
 
Deniz

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

I've read
"Siguiriyas", "Seguriyas", "Seguirillas" and quite a few more spellings I can't recall right now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 0:03:26
 
estebanana

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

The best palo name is Caracoles - the great song of snails

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 7:36:58
 
Ricardo

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

quote:

Are there meanings behind the names, or are they unique names?


Probably a lot are stolen and now you must ignore the original meaning or implication.

Siguiriyas = seguidillas, different dance and music altogether.
Soleares= soledades
Guajiras = Guajiras = Cuban girl and different song form.
Rumba= rhumba, Afro Cuban stuff, not the same compas
Tango = tango napoli rooted Argentine music dance form
TARANTA Taranto = tarantella, different sh1t
Fandango= fandango from baroque, not the same form at all.
Flamenco= pink bird.

It goes on and on. Ignore the superficial trivia and go for the meat and potatoes of the song forms.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 8:04:12
 
estebanana

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Ricardo

Flamingos can be white.

There’s also Renaissance Tientos, nothing like flamingo tientos

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 13:06:05
 
Ricardo

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to kitarist

quote:

corrupting the spelling and popularizing 'siguiriyas'; however this is the Spanish corpus, so..


No. Naide k es probe dice “Seguiriyas”... siempre “siguiriyas”

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 13:50:50
 
Piwin

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

Martinetes: Ildefonso Maria Rodriguez was working in the forge one day when his hand slipped and he crushed his fingers under a mallet (martinete). This prompted him to sing the most jondo song ever heard. The name martinete stuck.

Saeta: in 1873 in a village near Alicante, Maria Martha Maria de Martha took some shrooms and saw Jesus. The name stuck.

Polos: comes from the tragic story of two young boys, Jorge and Luis, who were playing Marco Polo in the Mediterranean. Jorge was swept off by the current. Luis kept on yelling Marco, with no reply. In the months that followed, grief drove him mad and he started singing Polo, the imaginary response of his now dead friend.

Granainas: actually come from Barcelona. But Barcelonaninas is a crappy name, so the inventor, Isabel Puigxet, put her finger on a map at random, landed on Granada, and called it Granainas.

Chuflas: called that because it's fun to say. Chuflas. Chuflas.

Caña: named after a beer-worshipping cult that had mild success in 17th-century Cadiz.

Tarantas: a song sung exclusively by women during the 1632 sex strike of Valencia. Now merged with Tarantos and called Tarantxs. Pronounced as written.

Cartageneras: a song about obsession. Delenda est.

Zapateado: in the early days of capitalism, a song of rich shoe-owners who use to gloat and fret in front of their shoeless counterparts.

Solea: actually not about soledad, but songs about Marisol, the most famous Madam of 1870s Sevilla. Used to be called Marisolea, but has been shortened to solea.

Romeras: songs about Rome, preferably sung in the original Latin.

Caracoles: war songs to make fun of the French after Napoleon came to Madrid. It was either snails or frogs. They made a call.

Jaberas: songs from soap operas.

Zarzuela: songs about bad seafood made by neophytes. Zarzuela is what California rolls are to sushi, or what ham-pineapple toppings are to pizza. The song bemoans the unnatural violation of basic aesthetics.

Colombianas: songs about Christopher Columbus. Basically variations on that Vangelis song from the 1992 movie. You know... in noripe peripeeeeeeee, in noripe bla bla blaaaaa

Verdiales: songs about green vegetables. Mostly green beans.

Bambera: cheap knock-offs of the Gipsy King hit song Bamboleo.

(sorry, I had nothing useful to say )
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 13:55:41
 
Morante

 

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to estebanana

The best palo name is Caracoles - the great song of snails

Duérmete gitanito
rey de los soles
yo te voy a hacer una cunita
de caracoles
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 15:46:49
 
Morante

 

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

(sorry, I had nothing useful to say )


Not to worry: you are in the foro flamenquito
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 15:50:33
 
kitarist

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Naide k es probe dice “Seguiriyas”... siempre “siguiriyas”


1. Que?
2. Seguro?

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 16:39:12
 
JasonM

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From: Baltimore

RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

Some say that Buleria comes from the spanish word burlar because of the dance moves. You know, that thing they do, burla with their butts
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 17:05:58
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

No one has mentioned Alegrias. I thought it was the easiest one. My guess is Alegrias come from an italian word allegro (fast, quick) which is one of the tempo markings. Allegro is around 150bpm. I wonder which bpm Alegrias have.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 19:49:27
 
kitarist

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to devilhand

quote:

italian word allegro (fast, quick)


Allegro does not mean "fast, quick" in Italian; it means cheerful, joyful. Which is what Allegria is too.

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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 20:03:18
 
Escribano

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to devilhand

Yep. Living in Italy, I can confirm that allegro means cheerful here. Having lived in Spain, I can also confirm that alegrías means joys or happinesses.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 20:08:25
 
devilhand

 

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Escribano

quote:

Yep. Living in Italy, I can confirm that allegro means cheerful here. Having lived in Spain, I can also confirm that alegrías means joys or happinesses.

You guys are right about the meaning of alegro.

quote:

I got told "solea" means "loneliness", not sure if that's right though.

Another theory says Solea doesn't mean soledad (loneliness). The olive harvest is called soleo. Gitanos used to sing the earlier version of Solea when they worked on the olive plantation. Solea was like a work song of African slaves who sang it in a group. During the olive harvest Solea was sung in a group as well. A clear contradiction to soledad.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 21:09:10
 
Deniz

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to devilhand

quote:

No one has mentioned Alegrias. I thought it was the easiest one. My guess is Alegrias come from an italian word allegro (fast, quick) which is one of the tempo markings.


Doens't "Alegrias" mean "Joy" in spanish?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 2 2020 22:23:47
 
estebanana

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Ricardo

Cover the of now trending Israel Fernandez with little morao spells it Se not Si

I’m guess the graphic designers didn’t get the memo

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2020 1:00:34
 
JasonM

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From: Baltimore

RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Deniz

quote:

Doens't "Alegrias" mean "Joy" in spanish?


No, I think it’s Italian for fast tempo. Your thinking of allegro
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2020 2:55:34
 
estebanana

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to JasonM

Allegro is Italian and it means ‘bright’ tempo. It connotes something peppy and light. Allegro con brio means bright with spirit. Allegria does come from allegro linguistically, probably from a long time back when antiquated forms of Latin took root in what’s now Spain.

I could give you a long lecture on why allegro begets allegrias, but you could read Barcelona by Robert Hughes and around page 35 or 40 he’ll explain it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2020 14:31:53
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Cover the of now trending Israel Fernandez with little morao spells it Se not Si


Of course the artists wouldn’t do that

quote:

I’m guess the graphic designers didn’t get the memo


Correct, whoever designed the cover did that. It’s the same when they spell “Nadie” or “Pobre” in the liner notes when they clearly don’t pronounce that ever. Weird they think is ok to write “ pa’ “ and “mare” and things like that but not spelling of letter mix ups.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2020 19:10:33
 
mark indigo

 

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[Deleted] 

Post has been moved to the Recycle Bin at Nov. 3 2020 20:11:49
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2020 20:07:30
 
mark indigo

 

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Allegro is Italian and it means ‘bright’ tempo. It connotes something peppy and light. Allegro con brio means bright with spirit. Allegria does come from allegro linguistically, probably from a long time back when antiquated forms of Latin took root in what’s now Spain.

I could give you a long lecture on why allegro begets allegrias,


Surely both Italian and Spanish derive from Latin, not one from the other.

From Latin alacer, alacrem - lively, brisk, cheerful

In checking I also read that Allegro came into Italian via French "alegre" so not even direct from Latin to Italian!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2020 20:11:43
 
kitarist

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo
Naide k es probe dice “Seguiriyas”... siempre “siguiriyas”


1. Que?
2. Seguro?


No seriously, what did you say exactly (the first part especially)? Here's what I got, after changing 'naide' to 'nadie' in Google Translate:



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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2020 18:18:13
 
Piwin

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to kitarist

Nadie que es pobre
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2020 18:29:08
 
mark indigo

 

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From: Earth

RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to kitarist

try doing the same with probe as you did with naide....

and try the k as phonetic spelling....

EDIT: oh, Piwin just got there first while I was typing!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2020 18:30:19
 
kitarist

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Nadie que es pobre


Thank you, Piwin. And Mark.

So, "Nobody who is poor says..." A bit weird but ok.

Then I stand behind my tip for remembering how to spell "siguiriyas":

- Si, guiri.
- Yas!



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Konstantin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2020 18:35:02
 
JasonM

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From: Baltimore

RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Allegro is Italian and it means ‘brigh


I was being a smart ass because Kitarist and Simon had just gave an answer to the question
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2020 21:25:22
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin

Nadie que es pobre


Nadie que sea pobre dice is correct I think.

I could have done Naide probe dice... but then it would have been even weirder

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2020 3:15:19
 
Piwin

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RE: Palo names - meaning? (in reply to Ricardo

that damn subjunctive
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2020 10:17:43
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