RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations

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Stu

Posts: 2529
Joined: Jan. 30 2007
From: London (the South of it), England

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to RobF)

Yeah Rob. I do feel a bit like that. Like I need to set up from scratch.

Just need this weather to cool down and maybe I can tackle this. 😩

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 9 2020 16:36:29

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

If it is not a back buzz, then I repeat that it may be a harmonic anomaly that may be causing it.

In my case I've noticed a pattern of more buzzy A and D strings around the 3-4th frets when the strings are brand new, but the buzz diminishes or almost entirely disappears after 1-2 weeks.

Just seems counter-intuitive. If anything, the tension on these strings after re-tuning them for 2 weeks is a little less than as -new, because there is a little less linear mass due to the thinning of the strings as they stretch. On the other hand, they are a little less in diameter. So somehow the diameter reduction wins over the lowered tension in terms of the strings just clearing wherever they were touching when new, while being fretted around frets 3-4? (But how - isn't the string surface still the same distance from the other frets when vibrating? I am getting confused) And it cannot be harmonic anomaly as it seems to depend on the string state?

I'll investigate more about back buzz but the above seems relevant information that I don't know how to interpret. Hopefully it makes sense to you or others.

So I guess no one has any ideas about this?

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 10 2020 18:31:30

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to kitarist)

I don’t really have an answer but I don’t want you to feel forgotten either, lol.

Assuming you’ve done a check and eliminated backbuzz as a source, a slightly high fret is most likely the culprit causing the ‘new string zing’. If the fret job was perfect then a slightly lower than optimal action should result in relatively equal amounts of zing all over the fretboard, so that moves lack of relief lower in the list of suspects. Is your action at the low end of standard? Maybe try putting a shim under the saddle and see if the problem goes away. If it does then a new saddle could be in order, not necessarily as tall as the shimmed one, but taller than what’s there at the moment. There’s no harm in just using the shim, too.

I guess it also depends on how often you like to replace the strings and how much it bothers you, whether it’s something you don’t mind living with, or something that needs fixing.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2020 15:05:34

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to RobF)

Thank you, Rob. I'll experiment with a LED continuity tester (great idea). To answer your questions - it does not bother me that much really, since it mostly goes away after the strings are not brand new anymore (What bother me more is that I can't figure out why it only manifests itself for brand new strings)..

The action is relatively low (?) - 2.8mm bass and 1.8mm treble side at 12th fret; high tension Savarez Aliance trebles and Cantiga basses.

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Konstantin

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2020 17:49:24

RobF

Posts: 1611
Joined: Aug. 24 2017

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to kitarist)

The action reading appears to be standard when read for the low E, but it is what I would consider to be extremely low at the high e. It’s a drop of 1mm across the strings which, for a flamenco, is quite a lot.

I think what’s happening is, while the low E reads as standard, the A and D are likely sitting lower than optimal and, if the fretboard was dressed with a taper on the bass side to achieve a relatively even string height at the saddle then, depending on how the taper was done, the fingerboard might have a slight crown to it. But the crown may have been done in a way that is neither cylindrical nor conical. This is acting to exacerbate the effect, on the D string especially. Basically, what I’m trying to say is, even though the low E appears to be set to a reasonable mid/low action, due to the extreme drop in action towards the treble and a possibly uneven crown, the A and D might be lower than they should be.

Without dressing the frets or messing with the fingerboard or anything, I think if you raised the treble side to at least 2.2mm and also put a slight crown on the saddle it might solve the problem. If it were one of my guitars I’d probably set it up as 2.8mm low E to 2.6mm high e. For flamencos especially, I also tend to put more of a twist in my fingerboard than a crown, so at any given spot the board is flat laterally. Also, because I’ve been keeping the bass and treble heights quite close at the 12th, there’s less need to taper the fingerboard on the bass side and I’m thinking I’ll do the next couple with it flat and see how they turn out.

I think there’s probably a lot of opinions on how to dress a fingerboard, so I’m not presenting my own current way as the be all or anything. It would be a good topic for discussion, actually.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2020 18:25:53

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to kitarist)

quote:

ORIGINAL: kitarist

quote:

If it is not a back buzz, then I repeat that it may be a harmonic anomaly that may be causing it.

In my case I've noticed a pattern of more buzzy A and D strings around the 3-4th frets when the strings are brand new, but the buzz diminishes or almost entirely disappears after 1-2 weeks.

Just seems counter-intuitive. If anything, the tension on these strings after re-tuning them for 2 weeks is a little less than as -new, because there is a little less linear mass due to the thinning of the strings as they stretch. On the other hand, they are a little less in diameter. So somehow the diameter reduction wins over the lowered tension in terms of the strings just clearing wherever they were touching when new, while being fretted around frets 3-4? (But how - isn't the string surface still the same distance from the other frets when vibrating? I am getting confused) And it cannot be harmonic anomaly as it seems to depend on the string state?

I'll investigate more about back buzz but the above seems relevant information that I don't know how to interpret. Hopefully it makes sense to you or others.

Assuming it happens both with fingers and with capo in the same area? Have you tried harder tension and different string brands? My first guess is 5th fret is coming up a hair. Check with leveler 4-5-6

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2020 18:51:09

kitarist

Posts: 1715
Joined: Dec. 4 2012

RE: Persistent buzz/vibrations (in reply to kitarist)

Thank you both. Lots to check and experiment with.

I now remember that the bass side was supposed to be lower like 2.3-2.4 or so (thus less of a drop between bass and treble at 1.8). However, it was buzzing too much (the original fingerboard as purchased was quite messed up, so even after fixing it as much as possible there were still bass-side problems), so the bass side got raised the least amount necessary for the buzz to be tolerable.

It is later on that I noticed the buzz is less when the strings are past their first 3-4 days of being on the guitar.

As to bass strings tension, I'd have to see - there aren't that many higher tension strings than Savarez high tension, and I also like the Cantigas a lot. Any suggestions for higher tension basses?

Cantiga premium basses tension is below: