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Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

X's 

I am posting to see if I am reading some music correctly. In a series of rasgueados and i rasgueos some chords at times are written with an X for each note instead of the notes - does this mean the rasgueo is played muted?

Cheers

Edit: Never mind, I looked it up which I should have done in the first place.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 23 2019 0:36:04
 
henrym3483

Posts: 1512
Joined: Nov. 13 2005
From: Limerick,Ireland

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

if on the lines, it usually means muted or not played

an x above the lines, means a golpe or tap on the guitar
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 23 2019 22:25:55
 
Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: X's (in reply to henrym3483

Thanks for the response Henry. I thought it likely it meant mute but "not played" might also be the way it is expressed. Where I am encountering it is at the beginning of "Aires De Puerto Real" by Sabicas. I do not hear a muted strum in the version I am listening to even when slowed down. I just started with it so when I get closer to the speed of the version I might be able to suss out what is going on.

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 24 2019 17:03:02
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11588
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

Golpe... tap on the top at the same time as strum. In the first compas he does it on the accents, 3-6-8-10-12, the second compas he only does a golpe on 12 opposite thumb. I admit the second compas expression he does is unusual due to the lack of golpes honestly, probably because of his rasgueado pattern.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2019 13:25:33
 
Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: X's (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks Ricardo. I was hoping you might weight in. Are you saying the stacked X(s) within the staff should be strummed w/o muting but with a golpe? There looks to be a traditionally(?) marked golpe above the staff on top of the chord on the 3rd beat of the 2nd compas - makes it a bit confusing.

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2019 16:43:47
 
Piwin

Posts: 2604
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

It'd be easier if you could post a picture/screenshot. There's no percussive strumming in Aires de Puerto Real as far as I know. There are a few parts where muting is used for staccato but I think that's it.

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J'ouvre une parenthèse. Si vous avez un peu trop d'air, je la refermerai tout de suite.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2019 17:10:38
 
Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: X's (in reply to Piwin

quote:

"Aires De Puerto Real" by Sabicas


Hope this works.



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2019 17:28:46
 
Piwin

Posts: 2604
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

Weird. I would read that as muted strings as well. Dunno, between that and the "aami" rasgueados, I figure these are just mistakes. Here's Faucher's version (1st screenshot):


BTW, not related but just as a pointer on that piece: when you get to the first picado run, there's one compas with picado from 1 to 9 and remate on C, 10-12. The next picado run is 1/2 + 1 compas. So there's a 1/2 compas in there where you jump straight from 6 to 1 (2nd screenshot).





Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (2)

_____________________________

J'ouvre une parenthèse. Si vous avez un peu trop d'air, je la refermerai tout de suite.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2019 17:52:42
 
Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: X's (in reply to Piwin

Thanks for the response Piwin. It appears to be what Ricardo had said in his post if I am reading it correctly.

Cheers for the tip, I spent some time this morning on that picado run prior to you posting it. I had not thought about it in the terms you described but looking at and playing it makes sense. My knowledge of theory is minimal so I basically listen to a phrase in the piece I am working on and work on it until I get a close facsimile. Then when I get a piece established I might tinker with it.

One other thing the version of the piece I listen to by Sabicas it seems the capo is on the second fret.

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2019 20:37:50
 
Piwin

Posts: 2604
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

Yeah, and tbh for that picado run I don't keep track of compas either. It's kind of a "play as fast as you can" section. But most of the time I do keep track of compas with my feet. Let's just say that if you were to play with one of those flamenco metronomes, or if you tried to play that falseta in a dance class, then you'd have to either add 6 or delete 6 to make it fit.

_____________________________

J'ouvre une parenthèse. Si vous avez un peu trop d'air, je la refermerai tout de suite.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2019 12:01:29
 
Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: X's (in reply to Piwin

quote:

then you'd have to either add 6 or delete 6 to make it fit.


I thought about that when reading your last post and was going to see if that was resolved by the end of the piece. If that is in fact a way that it can be treated?

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2019 13:25:40
 
Piwin

Posts: 2604
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

I don't think there are any other 1/2 compas in that piece (going by memory here so maybe I'm wrong). But it wouldn't really make sense to see it as something that needs resolving anyway. The rhythmic structure goes back to regular solea compas right after that so it wouldn't make sense to think of it as being superimposed on something else. He just cuts off at 6 there and that's that.

1/2 compas happens in both solo guitar and cante. It's with baile that you have to stick with the 12-beat compas. That being said, I think nowadays even in cante they tend to stick with 12 in solea, perhaps under the influence of baile? Dunno. It's weird though because with bulerias they still cut away at 6 whenever they please.

_____________________________

J'ouvre une parenthèse. Si vous avez un peu trop d'air, je la refermerai tout de suite.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2019 14:00:39
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11588
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: X's (in reply to Auda

Yes always go for Faucher’s transcription over other options. The person that transcribed it with X on the the note spaces couldn’t figure out how to put the x above the fretted chord. You were right to be confused by a poor transcription.

There is a scale thread on here as well and this transcription is a perfect example why learning specific scales is not the way to go. The falseta he plays here mixes natural minor, harmonic minor, and tons of chromatics all together in one go. Learning falsetas from the maestro helps the student figure out what you need to do to sound flamenco, and it is NOT any one special scale for sure.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2019 16:31:38
 
Auda

 

Posts: 144
Joined: Sep. 28 2019
 

RE: X's (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Yes always go for Faucher’s transcription over other options. The person that transcribed it with X on the the note spaces couldn’t figure out how to put the x above the fretted chord. You were right to be confused by a poor transcription.


Like the "Zapateado en Re" you responded to on another thread of mine this one lists Faucher as the transcriber. Both were free on the internet and I as can be seen there are a few changes but on the whole they both look to be fairly faithful. I need a bit more polishing on the Zapateado but it's getting closer. I am also working on a couple of Zambra's by Sabicas but I bought Faucher's transcriptions of those and they are not all that difficult.

I see your point on scales (I read the thread too) and think going forward I am going to play picado runs more rather than scales. I have recently found speed but it still takes some time to get the runs/scales up to speed when learning them.

Cheers
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2019 17:14:39
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