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RE: Further Evidence of Decline in English Language Standards
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Piwin
Posts: 3566
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
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RE: Further Evidence of Decline in E... (in reply to Ricardo)
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quote:
but not if you are napoleon or someone deceased I would imagine Well, the Wikipedia entry for Napoleon Bonaparte is pretty much all present tense: https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Napoléon_Ier The "historic present tense" isn't based on any real connection to the present (which you could imagine would be the case if we only used it for people who are still alive). Rather, it is based on an attempt to create a more vivid connection between past events and the reader. It's a bit of a mess though as it is subject to all sorts of exceptions where other components in the sentence will lead that present tense to be interpreted differently than was intended. It's not uncommon to see a biography written entirely in present tense except for a few sentences that demand past tense. For instance, for the francophiles in the room, one such exception would be: "Erik Satie a toujours vécu dans la misère." Using historic present tense, it would read: "Erik Satie vit toujours dans la misère". The problème here is that "toujours" shifts the meaning of the verb. Depending on context, it could mean "Erik Satie is still alive, and still living in poverty", or it could mean "at that specific moment in time, he was still living in poverty" (i.e., no comment on what might have happened to him after that specific moment. For all we know he might have won the lottery the next day and spent the rest of his life drinking caipirinhas on the deck of his 30-foot yacht) but it could never mean what it is intended to mean, namely "Erik Satie was a pauper his entire life".
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Date Sep. 25 2019 16:21:04
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: Further Evidence of Decline in E... (in reply to Piwin)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Piwin I just finished reading Une langue venue d'ailleurs by Akira Mizubayashi. The author is a Japanese academic who began studying French at age 19 and now writes exclusively in French (rather well I might add). He describes how French was a breath of fresh air for him, a way out of the highly codified linguistic system of his own country, a way out of what he called his own "linguistic prison". I found his book rather intriguing, since my own impression is that French, at least in literature, is almost lethally rigid, stuffy to the point of asphyxiation. The preservation of certain standards has all but crushed creativity. Amongst contemporary authors, those who don't follow those standards are painful to read, and those who do fail to connect in any real way with the reader. Only a handful manage to navigate those waters. Matter of perspective, I suppose. Some are in rigid structures and want more flexibility, some are in flexible structures and want more rigidity. So goes it. Following French literature debates, as a writer (now seeking writer´s asylum abroad from the blocked German market) I am all in envy. Over there still exists idealism with publishing folks who do support the special subject, avantgarde and intelligentsia, whereas in Germany it prostitutes to a self-generated market demand for infantile and irrelevant / superficial context. In the same time the oh so PC public fraction is enforcing once again irrelevant language bending like generating all the common idioms like for relating and professionals (like say “someone, respective, carpenter, miller” etc.) which traditionally are presented as male in female form too, in order to honor the other gender. So silly, if not cynical, whilst in practice females are still undervalued and underpaid. Superflous BS contextually, while never getting tired of messing up the once most precise language in diverse ways (starting the predetermined altering campaign with a stupid reform, instigated by publishing lobbyists who by that and common bribe succeeded with initiating paying reprint of dictionaries and school books). We are talking about a new age of pseudo PC disease (in all fields / not just language) that should be well described as trendy “empty significance”. Which again is not to say that non-binaries couldn´t or shouldn´t be having their own article, but that using “they” for a single person other than for your old-fashioned Royal Highness is evidently stupid. Yours truly for one is all with the TO in regard of this topic. Messing up a language without the backing of a lasting popular usus is a cultural nonsense and crime. More so when diluting semantics. Precise and / or lyrical semantic ways are the treasure of (a) language. Cadgers and fools should stay away from it.
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Date Sep. 26 2019 22:16:06
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3464
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Further Evidence of Decline in E... (in reply to estebanana)
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Thanks to my good amigos Richard and Stephen for their "honorable mentions." Richard, I would no doubt register on the "conservative" side of the spectrum on the magnetic resonance scan, as I have always considered myself a "classic" conservative (as opposed to the Pavlovian fools who consider themselves conservatives today, as they salivate after the nonsense and venom spewed by Mr. Trump). I have always supported free market economics, free trade, lower tariffs, the NATO defense alliance, and the whole international architecture largely built by the United States and Britain after World War II. I would note that the term "conservative" has its root in the verb "to conserve," i.e. to conserve the best of what we have produced, politically, economically, and culturally, while changing those aspects that would be better for the change. That goes for language (the subject of this thread) and music, including flamenco. Stephen, it is very good to hear from you. It has been a long time, and I have often thought I would send you an E-mail message but just haven't gotten around to it. Your observations and insights have been missed on the Foro. When do you plan to next visit the States, or have you already visited this summer? Marta and I plan to be in San Francisco October 31 to November 4, attending a reunion of Project HOPE. You may recall that Project HOPE had the hospital ship SS HOPE that put into port for a year of medical training and working with patients in various countries. Marta was on the ship for a year in 1972 when it was in Natal, in Northeaster Brazil, as an educator/interpreter. (She is Brazilian.) I visited her that summer, and the President of Project HOPE put me up on the ship, bunking with the medical students and getting three squares a day of shipboard meals for working as a deck hand. Great experience. We are both looking forward to the reunion and being in San Francisco again. And we will most certainly have dinner one evening at Scoma's. Cheers, Bill
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Date Sep. 27 2019 15:57:53
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