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Arash

Posts: 4351
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

Is good music dead? 

I like this guy



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 20 2018 21:28:55
 
Mark2

Posts: 1430
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

Whatever, a 20 something who knows little telling others how little they know. Good music has always been around, and didn't require the internet to save it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 20 2018 22:39:36
 
Piwin

Posts: 2063
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

Seems like a very partial view of the impact of the internet. Basically "it's good because I can access more music". No mention of "music is now worth virtually nothing thanks to the internet".
His opinion seems limited to his view as a consumer who most likely doesn't pay for any of his music and doesn't bother to consider the point of view of those making the music.

I do agree with him that music isn't dead though.

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 20 2018 23:03:25
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3676
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

I have not seen the video, but can relate to the thread title.

I notice what could be called world music and hear what might be newcomers or B-chart presented in German and francophone channels. And beside do hear what must be current top of disco music through boring reports on celebrity and awards.

To start with the latter, it is obvious that music writing pros are being at work with bringing up lines and arrangement that will allow trained voices to display their range. All skilled producing, but sterile and musically hollow.

Regarding music of newcomers, it appears to vastly be based on melodiousness that everyone comes up with occasionally under the shower and such. One finds a note or a vocal nudge that sounds good and goes from there to make a piece of it. However, as for most there isn´t anything further added to that one kind of melodiousness in question, it ends up being a one-trick pony that stands for the slightly varied repertoire of a whole interpreter´s or band´s presence.

Conclusion: Poor public who needs to get by with contemporary output and charts. And good for them that they are not familiar with the creative, pulling and tremendously rich eruption from before the eighties of past century. Otherwise they couldn´t wave to scarcity and plagiarism.

For, by and large one needs to either put on the turntable from the old times to rock the boat (missing the cassettes that I exquisitely compiled by fit crossing back then. There have never been delightful moving gatherings and parties again, like those with such soundtrack) or make do with dolled up, lame mediocrity.
That is basically it, with the exception of the sporadic new song that may have something to it, though not extraordinarily so.

It´s just seven notes and only so many of individually appealing shades of tone / arrangement. The great plains however have been grazed already, and that as brilliant as it gets.

It is other fields that have reserve left to blossom like technological and scientific ones. And they actually do thrive incredibly.

Music however has close to zero white spots left on the map.
Procol Harum, The doors, Led Zep, Lynyrd Skynyrd, Uriah Heep, Beatles, Stones & Co. will be there for as long as humanity lasts, while very most of afterwards and future will be diminishing in transience of furthermore production.

Having said that, me is the first one to be sorry about it. But it is a sad fact of limited bandwidth of means and creativity. Let aside lively inspiration of a past period of hope on undiscovered harmonical ground, wedged between the horrors of WWII and a stolen revolution.

The good thing with internet in the meantime being that sources will stay available long after labels have ceased publishing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 21 2018 14:25:08
 
Arash

Posts: 4351
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Mark2

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

Good music has always been around, and didn't require the internet to save it.


Internet helped a lot. Specially for less popular genres.
I would argue that flamenco would be in a much worse place today, or lets say much more locally limited, if it was not for internet.
Online courses, foros, youtube, facebook, etc. etc...all helped a lot to enable people all around the world get access to almost everything (be it learning guitar or listening to others)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2018 12:52:41
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10830
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

Bla bla bla....YOUTUBE is the thing that made music easy to find, for free. I love youtube and always have. More for the LIVE music performances that we used to call “bootlegs”. Those things used to be sold and traded under the table, and in poor quality. So basically the BOOTLEG market is the thing that really opened up and it’s all free and in HD quality and it’s great. But now nobody wants or needs to buy CD’s (tapes or vinyl either of course), and the whole machine used to be based on that. So the price to pay is high tickets for live shows. Oh well. Anyway, my tastes are retro metal, and I am quite thankful to have found the following stuff lately:



These old guys wow:

This guy, can’t believe he can still sing like I remember on headbangers ball halloween specials:


The live metal band version of the above:

How about this cool audition for Dragonforce:


Thanks youtube!!!

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 22 2018 16:35:27
 
Piwin

Posts: 2063
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

YOUTUBE is the thing that made music easy to find, for free


Poor myspace. They were there before the rest but man did they die fast.

@Arash

quote:

I would argue that flamenco would be in a much worse place today, or lets say much more locally limited, if it was not for internet.


Maybe. But then again the peak of flamenco popularity was in the pre-internet era. Don't know how that fits into it all.

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2018 10:31:26
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2753
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

I would argue that flamenco would be in a much worse place today, or lets say much more locally limited, if it was not for internet.

Maybe. But then again the peak of flamenco popularity was in the pre-internet era. Don't know how that fits into it all.


In my opinion the internet has not resulted in greater numbers who understand and appreciate flamenco. What it has done is enable those of us who do have an understanding and appreciation of flamenco (gained on our own through friends, teachers, and concerts, not via discovery on the internet), and who live in various regions of the world, to connect on fora such as this one, thus overcoming local limitation and isolation. Some may have discovered flamenco on the internet, but I suspect that their number is small.

Frankly, while I think the internet can be useful, much of what is posted is superficial and shallow, and sometimes outright wrong or incomplete. News, for example, is presented in bite-sized segments. The internet does not even begin to compete with good newpapers like the New York Times and the Washington Post, both of which run in-depth articles on major issues of the day. I would argue flamenco is treated in much the same way. The internet has not cast the net out and created new flamenco aficionados. Rather, it has enabled those of us who are afionados (the internet notwithstanding) to connect and interact with each other.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2018 14:27:05
 
Leñador

Posts: 5202
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

Why was his go to analogy making a flesh light?????

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2018 16:38:28
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2479
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
Frankly, while I think the internet can be useful, much of what is posted is superficial and shallow, and sometimes outright wrong or incomplete. News, for example, is presented in bite-sized segments. The internet does not even begin to compete with good newpapers like the New York Times and the Washington Post, both of which run in-depth articles on major issues of the day.
Bill


I read the Times and the Washington Post every day--on the internet, in their internet editions. Their articles run to considerable length and detail. I can pull up the full print editions on the internet if I find something particularly interesting.

I don't use my fireplace nearly as much as my brother does. His son-in-law teases him about his "Boy Scout" fire starting, using old newspapers.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2018 19:30:53
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 2479
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Leñador

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

Why was his go to analogy making a flesh light?????


I lost interest and clicked on something else when he got to "diarrhea into the microphone." I don't much care for popular rap, but I don't spend my time composing baroquely scatological insults and broadcasting them. I have no emotional investment in belittling the perpetrators of popular rap.

I just click on a different URL.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2018 19:35:56
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2753
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

I read the Times and the Washington Post every day--on the internet, in their internet editions. Their articles run to considerable length and detail. I can pull up the full print editions on the internet if I find something particularly interesting.


You can thank God that the New York Times and the Washington Post (and some others such as the Wall Street Journal) are still very much in the tradition of presenting valid news and analysis. There are so many fora, blogs, and other entities on the internet posing as news sources without any attribution that one can have little confidence in their veracity. Wikipedia is one element that unless you are aware of the subject matter under discussion (in which case you wouldn't be looking it up on Wikipedia), you would have no idea whether what is presented is valid. It is often wrong on the details with few or no sources cited, but more often it is incomplete, which is just as bad if you want to really become knowledgeable about a subject.

The demise of so many newspapers is appalling. They are failing for lack of readership and advertising, and thus revenue. What is frightening is that so many younger people don't read a newspaper at all. They get their bite-sized "news," such as it is, off the internet and think they are up to speed. A perfect example is the 28-year old woman, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, (a so-called Democratic Socialist) who won the Democratic primary in New York's Bronx, and thus will no doubt be in the House after November's election. The false-hoods and half-truths she has been spouting were exposed by Glenn Kessler in the Washington Post. A perfect example is her claim that unemployment is so low (3.9 percent) because so many are working two jobs! That is a real howler since two jobs are performed by the same employee. Yet she thought it accounted for low unemployment.

And of course we have a "man-child" for a President who doesn't read at all. Whether or not he gets any "news" on the internet is problematical, but he sure lacks any evidence that he knows anything about history, trade, economics and foreign relations.

I stated in my post above that I think the internet has some value, but on the whole I think it (and much of social media for that matter) leads to dumbing down and a short attention span, neither of which bodes well for the country.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 23 2018 21:53:46
 
Piwin

Posts: 2063
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

A perfect example is her claim that unemployment is so low


I struggle to understand US unemployment measures. So much of it doesn't make sense to me. It seems set up to exclude everyone who is in the worst position of unemployment possible. The main reason being that the official indicator used only accounts for those who have searched for a job in the recent past (I think it's in the last 4 weeks?). If I understand correctly, those who haven't searched for a job in the last 4 weeks, which isn't uncommon for people in long-term unemployment, are just no longer considered part of the workforce at all. Not sure where they go. It's odd to consider though that the homeless guy that you've seen begging down the street for the last decade isn't considered unemployed...

Next to that, the official figure you find in government speeches and in the press doesn't take into account people who are forced to work only part-time jobs for economic reasons (i.e. they want full time but can't get it). This makes sense to me. They are after all employed. The quality of that employment is then another matter. However, the labor bureau does have other indicators of unemployment. The broadeast one, which isn't the one you'll find in the press, includes people who haven't looked for a job in the last 4-weeks (which makes sense to me) but also people forced to have only a part-time job (which doesn't make sense to me). If memory serves, that indicator is usually about double the "official" unemployed rate we see published in the press and used by politicians. I'm not sure where people working several jobs fit into that. I'm assuming that those jobs have to be part-time. In which case, if I were really trying to stretch it to find some truth into what this woman was saying, I'd go with that explanation, i.e. that she was saying the official stat used would be much higher if it took into account people forced to work only part-time, as this other indicator does. That doesn't address the issue of why the unemployment rate is lower today than it was say a year ago, but it makes a point of whether the numbers usedare artificially deflated to give a rosier picture of the labor market. Anyways, it's most likely not at all what she meant, I'm just thinking out loud to find how that statement could make any sense and that's what I came up with.

edit: after a cursory search, it seems the broader indicator I'm thinking about is called the "U6-rate".

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 2:36:02
 
Mark2

Posts: 1430
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Piwin

Piwin consider this anecdotal but my company is the busiest we've ever been. I could have used extra journeymen for the last two months. In the last month alone I had to pass on a substantial amount of business because we simply couldn't get to it. The pay is over 70.00 per hour and I couldn't find even one worker. There are no qualified workers in my area who aren't already working.

You want to count the homeless guy who is holding a sign at an intersection? That guy doesn't want a job, or food for that matter. In nine out of ten cases, he wants money for drugs. He needs treatment and recovery before he can be expected to perform at a job.
Right now not many people in my area are forced to work part time unless that is what they want to do. This is not what we have experienced in the past decade. BTW, I give Trump little credit for this-I consider it the normal economic cycle.

I realize my experience may not be representative of the whole country, but after 38 years in business, I find myself in the very strange position of telling potential and long time clients they have to wait a month or more for my service. And they are waiting, because my competitors are in the same situation. I have no idea what the actual rate of unemployment is, but IMO it's likely significantly lower than it's been for a while.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 17:06:37
 
Mark2

Posts: 1430
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

I wonder. How many touring solo guitarists are there now as opposed to before the net? About the same. How many touring dance companies? How many flamenco guitar "groups"? Record sales? Streaming revenue paid to artists? Overall revenue paid to artists? I'm not at all sure that flamenco artists are better off because of the internet.
In my little world by my reckoning musician's revenue has gone down relative to inflation since the 90's.


quote:

ORIGINAL: Arash

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mark2

Good music has always been around, and didn't require the internet to save it.


Internet helped a lot. Specially for less popular genres.
I would argue that flamenco would be in a much worse place today, or lets say much more locally limited, if it was not for internet.
Online courses, foros, youtube, facebook, etc. etc...all helped a lot to enable people all around the world get access to almost everything (be it learning guitar or listening to others)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 17:14:16
 
Ricardo

Posts: 10830
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Mark2

quote:

I give Trump little credit for this-I consider it the normal economic cycle.


I’m pretty much back to gigging almost everyday and turning down sh1ttier gig offers like I did in the bush era

In all seriousness I noticed how the news says economy was bad and nobody goes out spending. They’re told it’s good and they go out. All my friends were democratic and used come out drinking and supporting live music if nothing more than to complain about bush. We got Obama and a lot of people just disappeared.... now they are coming out to complain again, it’s great for business

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 17:34:51
 
Mark2

Posts: 1430
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Ricardo

The way Trump is going, you may be gigging eight days a week soon!


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

I give Trump little credit for this-I consider it the normal economic cycle.


I’m pretty much back to gigging almost everyday and turning down sh1ttier gig offers like I did in the bush era

In all seriousness I noticed how the news says economy was bad and nobody goes out spending. They’re told it’s good and they go out. All my friends were democratic and used come out drinking and supporting live music if nothing more than to complain about bush. We got Obama and a lot of people just disappeared.... now they are coming out to complain again, it’s great for business
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 18:01:22
 
Piwin

Posts: 2063
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Mark2

I hear you (and overall agree). I was just trying to find a framework in which that statement Bill referred to would make some kind of sense. Bending over backwards to be charitable I guess. And it takes a pretty big stretch...

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 22:44:26
 
El Burdo

 

Posts: 399
Joined: Sep. 8 2011
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

quote:

News, for example, is presented in bite-sized segments.

I suspect this is more to do with 24hr news than the medium used.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Aug. 24 2018 23:39:09
 
spain

 

Posts: 19
Joined: Aug. 9 2017
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

just to the original topic:
there are frenchies that always keep it on.



also knew a girl from baltimore, althought i never been in the us, im really glad for this experience, cos thanks to that im like part of it.




after all we still have this
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 11 2018 22:19:23
 
spain

 

Posts: 19
Joined: Aug. 9 2017
 

RE: Is good music dead? (in reply to Arash

just so i wouldnt forget.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Sep. 11 2018 22:27:38
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