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RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Stu)
In times of enlightenment the saying was "The pen is mightier than the sword". Now, on the U-turn to intellectual lazybone, it is "Enlightenment equals levelling down", or "If not struggling for insight, it will come to you anyway".
Down with mere snobbery of distinction! Long live moulinex!
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Stu)
Sort of on topic of hip hop: "Este es un proyecto que pretende constituirse como una plataforma artística desde la que generar una nueva tendencia de expresión del lenguaje flamenco; que sin perder su naturaleza y tradición, se apoya en las últimas tendencias de la música electrónica y en diversos estilos musicales como el jazz o el Hip Hop." Some sort-of rap stuff in there. Not my cup of tea (at all) but hey, it did give a flash of insight at the end: Antonio Canales is clearly the inspiration for the character Captain Jack Sparrow in the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Stu)
quote:
If it's good enough for Paco (we'll his band at least) then it should be good enough for us.
¡Por favor! Paco is not god. He has demonstrated various times in his career that he can have bad taste, which does not override his genius. But nobody has to believe in anybody.
Posts: 292
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Germany
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
I don't see why this post should be getting any negative comments. And so what if this is PdL's band doing stuff with a rapper? At the end of the day they're just a couple of guys having fun, what's bad about that AND: hip hop is a much respected and very deep genre, I love hip hop.
Posts: 15424
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to jalalkun)
quote:
ORIGINAL: jalalkun
I don't see why this post should be getting any negative comments. And so what if this is PdL's band doing stuff with a rapper? At the end of the day they're just a couple of guys having fun, what's bad about that AND: hip hop is a much respected and very deep genre, I love hip hop.
Posts: 15424
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to jalalkun)
quote:
ORIGINAL: jalalkun
so?
There is an off topic section for hip hop and other things. This is a general flamenco section. Shall we do an experiment and go to a hip hop forum and post vids of Agujetas etc and expect ONLY positive feedback?
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
Oops, was probably a mistake to re-open this thread. I just posted this one as an example of people trying to mesh rap with "flamenco". IMO it's a pretty good example of why that mix fails. Unlike fusion with say gnawa or qawali, there's just nothing organic about this kind of fusion. That's not to say that it's necessarily impossible to mix the two successfully, but it seems pretty darn difficult and stuff like this one here sound disjointed to me. If I compare this to, for example, what Israel Galvan does (to take an example that is equally far removed from flamenco) the difference in artistic quality is obvious. I would consider neither to be flamenco but Israel Galvan creates a seamless universe of his own, as opposed to this that just seems poorly sown together. And if you're not convinced from the music, you could take your cues from the video. They've themed this on some sort of hippy version of a fairy tale. Fair enough. But then our rapper has to be wearing the large baseball cap, completely disjointed with the rest. And a mixing table when everything else is themed around "nature". It just doesn't make any sense in the narrative. Like a stormtrooper in middle-earth, you just wonder WTF he's doing there. Anyways, back to flamenco.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
quote:
That's not to say that it's necessarily impossible to mix the two successfully, but it seems pretty darn difficult and stuff like this one here sound disjointed to me.
The guy is a pretty lousy emcee is BIG part of the problem, someone a little more intelligent and agile like Busdriver would fair better. Even still, I don't want to hear it done lol
Posts: 292
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Germany
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo There is an off topic section for hip hop and other things. This is a general flamenco section. Shall we do an experiment and go to a hip hop forum and post vids of Agujetas etc and expect ONLY positive feedback?
well if that's the problem then just migrate the thread to the OT-section *shrugs* no need for negativity. and since it hasn't been migrated (yet) and a lot of people gave their two cents about the topic anyway it doesn't quite seem to have bothered the majority this much.
@Piwin: the musical styles differ far too much to be combined I'm afraid, and there are different things that are important in flamenco/hip hop. hip hop/rap is about being cool and strong and untouchable, rather aggressively emotional, whereas I see it important in flamenco to be vulnerable and passionately emotional in that matter. it's never a good idea to mix hard basses and rude voices with kitsch
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to jalalkun)
quote:
ORIGINAL: jalalkun
AND: hip hop is a much respected and very deep genre, I love hip hop.
Commonly respected by ears raised in corresponding musical karst. "Deep genre"? How only could I be missing out on the complexity of basically the same loop over meanwhile ... can´t believe it ... Is this already 40 years of monotonous cacophony? (Jeez, back then I was dead sure that this fatuity would be vanishing again within a year or two.)
Why not check out on the music originaly raided from, in good time? I have seen amazed rap kids when they came to discovering richness of the source and its fellow hits.
Posts: 292
Joined: May 3 2017
From: Iraq, living in Germany
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
yes, it is a deep genre, not necessarily musically but lyrically. hiphop, or actually rap, is an evolved version of urban poetry, which deals with the problems minorities had to deal with in their city lives on the streets and so on. it has a lot of political and social meaning and speaks about a harsh life in an unforgiving environment. just listen to some tupac for example, and don't focus as much on the music loops but rather on the lyrics and how expressively they're given.
today's hip hop doesn't have much to do with the actual purpose of rap and is rather made for entertainment purposes, but to each their own.
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
Limmericks are an amazing art In which the prude refuse to have part Hip-hop deserves no medal But at least it’s not metal That one just sounds like a slow-mo fart
I need a vacation... Brace yourself, here come the people who got triggered by my joke about metal.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
Ah, metal. Can´t compete with the preceding innovation and locomotion of Uriah Heep, Black Sabbath & co? Nonetheless wanting to appear on stage with shaken long hair, guitar on knee hight as a rock star?
No prob. Just reduce the whole thing to 2 chords and bell hoarse like a deer in the rut. Chicks will love it.
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Leñador)
There once was a man from northwestern Ohio Who fell head over heels for cante flamenco You just ain’t got no game Said his rap friend Lil’ Dwayne Tell that to the man of Manuela Carrasco
This is going downhill fast
@Lenador yeah I'm just messing around. There's honestly not any genre of music that's off my list for at least occasional listening. Though I probably listen to more metal overall than I do to hip-hop.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Leñador)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Leñador
quote:
Brace yourself, here come the people who got triggered by my joke about metal.
That’s me! When you can do what top metal players can do THEN you can bash it.
Maybe, or not. (Though admittedly some can strum well on the grid. And their dual notes can indeed be challenging. But what´s athletics good for when the music is meager? And that fashion of disgusting bawling as vocals last time I checked, is just unmusical.)
What seems certain though: These guys will be needing wigs once they´re bald. hehe
Posts: 1967
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Morante)
I can't get too puffed up over an accident of birth, but I see more right with the US than wrong. I told my kids before the election that no matter who won, life would go on pretty much as usual. I'd agree with those who think that many of the things Trump has done are preposterous, and could indeed have very negative long term affects, but my life, and those of the people I'm close to, has changed little as of yet. I absolutely love the place where I grew up, and also where I live.
I'm not influenced by folks who think I should be ashamed that Trump was elected, or for that matter, by folks who think I should condemn the country because of things that happened a hundred or more years ago. I think most people would be pretty happy to walk in my shoes for a week or so, but maybe I'm wrong......
quote:
ORIGINAL: Morante
quote:
That video just makes me proud to be Amerrrican! Hot dogs and home boys Yeah!
Amazing ,nowdays, that anyone should be proud to be American
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
much blanket broadbrush snobbery here, sad to see.
There are good and bad practitioners in any genre... there is a lot of bad and/or commercialized hip hop as well as in flamenco, and there are some really interesting and eloquent artists in any style as well.
I love hiphop that has substance. My main band -- which is a prog/jazz/funk/Middle East/India/improv mashup -- started working with a couple of Native American rappers. These girls have some deep stuff to talk about, and they're learning to improvise within the band context, going with the ebb and flow of our own group dynamic. It works pretty well . and the reaction from the hiphop crowd to see these girls work with live musicians rather than looped beats has been interesting. some are blown away by that possibility, some are resistant. But its all good.
quote:
the musical styles differ far too much to be combined I'm afraid, and there are different things that are important in flamenco/hip hop. hip hop/rap is about being cool and strong and untouchable, rather aggressively emotional, whereas I see it important in flamenco to be vulnerable and passionately emotional in that matter.
i think it can happen with the right approach, and the charactersitics you mention, while true in general, may be a little broad and not 100% percent across the spectrum.. some of Tupac's stuff is very vulnerable, for example.
And for those who want to oversimplify hiphop or rap as having monotonous drum loops without dynamics, i encourage you to dig deeper... hiphop or rap isnt techno, lol. You can find a lot of hiphop and rap with dropped measures, instrumental textures coming in and out, etc. (And weve all played in juergas where everyone takes turns over a never ending bulerias for 20 minutes, so theres your glass house for ya:) )
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to norumba)
quote:
hiphop or rap isnt techno, lol
I wonder who's at the very bottom of the barrel? If you take every single style of music in the world, who looks down on who, which style is really at the very bottom? Who do techno people look down on?
I'm surprised people would react to rap with live instruments. I mean, how long have bands like the roots been around? Mid 80s? Gogo has been around for decades too and it's always with live instruments as far as I know.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
quote:
I wonder who's at the very bottom of the barrel? If you take every single style of music in the world, who looks down on who, which style is really at the very bottom? Who do techno people look down on?
i didnt mean to disparage techno, its fine, just meant to differentiate. Not much hiphop that i listen to has techno's relentless quality that some on this thread seem to ascribe to hiphop.
quote:
I'm surprised people would react to rap with live instruments. I mean, how long have bands like the roots been around? Mid 80s? Gogo has been around for decades too and it's always with live instruments as far as I know.
i was surprised as well. That reaction came from a few-- not all-- of the other hiphop artists on the bills that we've shared, but not the crowd. There are purists in every genre, it seems...
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Ruphus)
To my ears it won´t matter much whether a needle of a turntable is hooked (never mind scratched over venyl [yuck! The epitome of barbarism for folks who used to know that gauges shouldn´t even be touched with fingers]), whether it being loops or loops recreated by use of instruments. Altogether too inane to be pleasing. Rather unnerving.
The beauty with limericks used to be intelligent text that would rhyme while crafted so well that it would yield rhythm. With rap on the other hand all sorts of text are being squeezed into monotonous clockwork, whether fitting or not. And that regardless time stretching and squeezing again, in lyrics formerly considered failure and bad taste, now is being considered the high art of the parlandos. Similar with the skill level of techno infantilism and most of what is called modern "art".
It all demonstrated the strength of marketing, image building and the universal tool to the brain that is frequency. Make something repeatedly perceived for long enough and it will turn into taste.
That is why I consider myself glad to have grown up in a time when even the contemporary trash and kitsch had to be of a certain quality. And while at quality. Damned be those label agents who thought it raving to promote bunglers out of all in the peak period of popular music.
All the years of glorious sparkling, rocking, melodious and extremely skillful creation in a row that would blow you out of your seat, and then the pushing of the diametric opposite which introduced following decades of soulless primitivity with only scarceness of some musical titles here and there. A total blow to art and culture.
When listening to the genius rich diversity of the pre crap era I sometimes think to myself: "What if this master piece was invented today? Common sense would explode over the sensation. Today only just a sequence of it would suffice for a blast of music writing and a world-wide mega hit."
In regard of demanding musicians I need to admit though that there just isn´t left over much that you could originally compose. Whenever figuring out some interesting progression, you´ll find that it has been done already. And even amazingly perfect to boot. The very most of it in said era of bombastic creation. A time when Manitou appeared to have reached down to ignite us mere Indians.
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to norumba)
A forum of grumpy old farts Was bemoaning the death of the arts But the dance from the floor Was all peace 'n' love - not war Find a place for techno in your corazons!
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Dudnote)
quote:
Damn, I can't get that last line to rhyme.
There once was a goat who was very very smart So many words he boasted, he could fill a cart But when it came time To say the last rhyme He failed to find the most obvious word: flowchart!
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: Duquende loves hip hop!! Or is t... (in reply to Piwin)
Oleeee tu!!
With an overwhelming sense of loss and sorrow We grumbled and groaned on the Foro But flamencos take heart On Piwin's flowchart The arts won't die today but mañana.
Printable Version
AND: hip hop is a much respected and very deep genre, I love hip hop. 
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