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RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in concert 1972   You are logged in as Guest
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Piwin

Posts: 2087
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Ruphus

I have to correct what I said: apparently the origin was Chinese and it only spread to India later. I'm not sure whether the Chinese version had 3 or 4 monkeys. In the Analects, Confucius did add "do not" to the list but who knows.
M. Gandhi was known to keep a small sculpture of them. It's rather fitting that his sculpture did not include the fourth monkey given that, when he was well in his 70s, he decided to test his vow to celibacy by bringing underaged girls in his bed. It seems that he kept his vow, but what an incredibly stupid idea that was (his sleeping arrangement, not that he kept his vow).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 7:22:06
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1735
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Piwin

quote:

ORIGINAL: Piwin
apparently the origin was Chinese and it only spread to India later.

The Chinese are the inventor of so many things (way before they were officially invented in other parts of the world) i'm still expecting someone to reveal Flamenco actually originated in China as well :-).

This is one of the few Chinese artefact i own, i guess it was part of some decorated door or furniture once. I love the artwork and the energy of it.







This Chinese wedding basket is also part of my collection.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 11:05:28
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1735
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus
Is there something that allows forming, adding and cutting for a good while before curing? Maybe even some kind of stuff that could then be sanded and smoothed?


I know my sister worked with Fimo clay which can be molded until you decide it's ready to cure (final curing is done by putting it in a kitchen oven). But as far as i know it's used to create small objects only, it's probably way to expensive and you have to know how to handle it. Hope others will know better material to use.

Aside of being a musician my father was a painter as well and his weapon of choice was aquarel because you can leave it/work on it to your likings. The aquarel i include was made when he was 81 years old and he worked a full year on it (in between other activities).




In light of your viewing problems i also include 3 stills from that fabulous shakespeare hologram (the hologram itself is a film showing the scene in 3d). If you google you might find yourself some better examples including sites offering the hologram itself.








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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 11:37:45
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1735
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

There exists one example of molded figure however that I wish to obtain one day. I have shown it on the foro before (albeit within other context, hehe). It ought to be found in the USA and I hope to be getting my hands on such a specimen one day. Not just because of its symbolism with tangent to life, but because of the outstanding sculpturing of the pattern as well as the perfect coloring.

Just have a look at this. Unfortunately, there is no picture of higher resolution available, yet the detail that I am so taken by, still shines through.



A look-alike is for sale on eBay right now but i doubt if it has the same quality as the one shown by you (these kind of copies tend to pop up in various qualities and yours seems to be of way better quality).

http://www.ebay.nl/itm/Monkey-Hear-See-Speak-No-Evil-Statue-Figurine-Resin-10-1-4-Tall-/201873936765?hash=item2f009fd17d:g:VmkAAOSw0UdXwgpT



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 14:06:00
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3689
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Piwin

Thank you, Erik. It looks as if from the same cast, yet less perfect somehow. (Maybe a plagiat.)

Thank you also for the hindsight about fimo. I had already heard of it (and that it is not most suiting).

That picture of your dad; if it is not traced from a photo projection, means killer eye, understanding of rules of perspective and of handcrafting skills! But even in case of a traced drawing still without doubt an incredible example of precision and utmost consistency. He must have been quite a contemplating spirit.

I got a pencil drawing from my old man somewhere, showing some traditional guy sitting before his sword. Not bad as a capturing, but not nearly demanding as much of patience and accuracy.

In respect of famous Chinese inventions, I remember an article that claimed much of those to actually originate in India and to have made their way to China from there.
Regarding black powder for first fireworks and toys possibly not too unlikely, with open sources of salpet in Eastern India.
Regarding paper print, maybe not too far off either, seeing India´s initial printing methods with cloth. And wu shu (kung fu) originates from Indian limbering-up exercises against stiffening after meditation (of which in India itself as well there was developed kind of martial arts).

But maybe I am biased, with my considering ancient India as more intelligent and ingenious than China. Me estimates that a whole lot spread from old India over the whole of Asia, more so than from anywhere else.
-

My father used to have a little cast-iron figure of the three monkeys in his book shelves. At age of maybe 3 or four years I asked him about those and he in a way explained that they stood for unwillingness to perceive (worldly) truth (and to stand to that). That is how I personally like to look at them, even if it be different from the original aim.

That bit about Gandhi, if true, would be a pity (the more as he used to give such a platonic impression in his dealings with his female western company). Such would also question his intellectual background. It almost looks as if there have to be unsightly items about any of the greats. (Hopefully at least not about guys like Bartholomeo or Albert Schweitzer, though. ... but you never know.)

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 16:13:33
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1735
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Thank you, Erik. It looks as if from the same cast, yet less perfect somehow. (Maybe a plagiat.)

Thank you also for the hindsight about fimo. I had already heard of it (and that it is not most suiting).

That picture of your dad; if it is not traced from a photo projection, means killer eye, understanding of rules of perspective and of handcrafting skills! But even in case of a traced drawing still without doubt an incredible example of precision and utmost consistency. He must have been quite a contemplating spirit.


With a beautiful object like those apes many copies are made by many different people in often strongly varying qualities. eBay offers another one that is quite similar but not as similar as the one i showed. It is very hard to judge an artwork from a picture. I've seen numerous paintings being sold at auction houses and since a couple of years those paintings are not only shown for real during the auction but also as a projected photograph. 99 times out of a 100 the photograph looks way better as the original in color and contrast. The Chinese panel and the wedding basked show on top of this page are less appealing in real life. Some statues look better on the photo, others seem impossible to "catch". So if your photograph of the apes is your only source it's hard to tell how the original looks in detail and color.

As far as my fathers paintings are concerned, he starts with having an idea/composition in his head. Then he studies the location thoroughly making dozens of photographs helping him to construct that composition. Next he makes a drawing based on those photographs. Parts are based on copying a projection but quite often he has to insert/re calculate the perspectives of photographs taken from different angles. In general lots of questions remain when studying these photographs so he frequently returns to the crime spot to study details and make additional photographs. So the end result is a drawing combining the info of many photographs and field studies and involving lots of re calculations concerning the perspectives. Sometimes he moves objects to his needs or make them bigger, smaller or less crooked as they would be on a photograph simply because on a photograph people will accept that crooked building but on a painting it will raise many eyebrows. On top sometimes you have to "ly" to tell the "truth".

The end result is a detailed drawing of the complete composition which then is transferred to aquarel. Then it's a matter of adding the corresponding colors which is quite a craftsmanship in it's own. First of all you have to know the order of events, second of all everything you do changes everything else (so dark suddenly becomes light when an even darker object is added and even the perception of color can totally change depending on what colors surround it), correcting errors is pretty difficult in aquarel and on top if you have an endless line of houses/doors/doorposts/windows viewed alongside while disappearing in the distance it is incredible difficult to see which line belongs to which house etc. On top many things in this picture are a no go for the average aquarelist in the sense of "no way, that's way to difficult" like painting the shoes of passing people, the straw chairs etc. The detail is incredible. The window above the pup reflects another building who's windows reflect yet another building, you can see the other half of the street pop up in the motor helmets reflection and if a building expert looks at it he can see details only an expert of electric cables, bricks, sinks etc. will spot like "o, thats from the 30ties and this part is from the 50ties. Speaking about the fifties, in the early fifties my father was a apprentice painter at an art studio that was located only a few meters from this spot and the other site of the street has shops from that period still using the kind of window calligraphy's my father introduced back then. This is quite a famous part of Rotterdam known as "de brandgrens" being the part of Rotterdam were the bombardment and the resulting fire destroyed the heart of Rotterdam. This spot is the exact border of old and new and the pup shown is the oldest one of Rotterdam, just surviving the flames. In the distance we see the beginning of "de lijnbaan", a shopping street that was quite revolutionary in it's time (1953). It's a complete car-free zone and being the fist of it's kind has been a testcase for numerous car-free shopping streets around the world.


Here are some of the working stages of above aquarel.










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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 17:37:47
 
Piwin

Posts: 2087
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Ruphus

Unfortunately it is true. It was a minor scandal in the news back then and several members of Gandhi's staff left because of it.
Next to that, he was a force for the empowerment of women in Indian society. It's just that, for whatever reason, cultural, intellectual or otherwise, he didn't seem to see the problem with his "experiments". I remember that one of these girls was part of his family, a niece or a daughter or something like that. There are settings where I would see nothing wrong with a grandfather sleeping in the same bed as his granddaughter. But when the grandfather goes on to say that the intent was for him to test his own control over his urges...

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"When I'm dead, I'm going to forget everything – and I advise you to do the same."
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 17:49:11
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3689
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Piwin

I very much assume that your old man could be having a great time with my cousin, sharing on how to take corresponding shots, about perspective and painting. That cousin, whom I introduced once on the foro, is a former prof for architecture and art painting who since years now has settled in on fictive panoramas of ancient or future scenes, which are then being plotted on 30 m high and 100 m long rotundas that are installed in several cities´ old gasometers. (You get binoculars for spotting details, almost like in nature.) He does the painting digitally, buts it´s about similar skills as with analog means.

Different from his past free paintings. Not always perfect, but I liked that time the most. Besides, as a kid he used to draw traditional motifs of women onto egg shells, with detail beyond belief. You know, with those super thin brushes.

Your dad really knows how to handle colors. (And I have definitely never been able to apply ink that homogenously.)
What you observe with photos of paintings ought to be interpolation in conjunction with reduced resolution. What adds is that each digital brand´s technicians have to determine how actual shades of grey ought to be translated into color. With many manufacturers (and to my personal impression especially canon [very similar to leica] and panasonic) colors on default / neutral setting appearing better than life.
That´s so to say how worn surfaces come to appear like mint.

Not that artsy stuff wouldn´t earn its bonus with me, it certainly will. But me can appreciate anything between art, craftsmanship, deco, photography and handy work on computers. Naturally each of the easier methods minus the lesser demand of skill and effort, yet anything beautiful may hold its own.

And so, I do dig computerized morphing of photos into "paintings". Actually, every then and now there would be a shot, which I was wanting to turn it into a "painting". But digital tools and apps that I tried wouldn´t yield too well.

Until I stumbled over that kind guy´s little app who shares his make. I have posted examples before on the forum with transformations from wedding sessions that do look like freaking paintings.

If I hung such a pic on the wall, first thought would always be: "You didn´t paint it. ... It´s only an edited photography, dude", hehe; but having thought that, yours truly would then enjoy the optics still.

Eye-candy has its base of visual cake, and the more of skill involved in the making the more icing there adds on top.
... My cousin, besides, used to agree into that. Not anymore, however. The ordinary profession-legitimating thingy obviously has left its traces.

Now, ... while in fact about to going seriously broke ... You give me a job as photographer (or possibly if must be as photoshopper, which would be taking an intensive wetting of toes first, though. Not to underestimate the complexity of piloting such prog) and I will swear that photography is the most demanding form of all art.
Maybe. ;O)
-

If that was Ghandi´s argument, it does remind me of similar blurb regarding child marriage and other questionable customs, stemming from a time when practice just took a bending of reality to desired nonsense. As I find, a method still widely in place, yet in times of particle physics and space exploration. One can buy a car and still ride the poor donkey with it. As style too frustratingly resistant to bear.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 19:53:52
 
Erik van Goch

 

Posts: 1735
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Your dad really knows how to handle colors. (And I have definitely never been able to apply ink that homogenously.)

His most daring painting when it comes to apply ink homogeneously (while on top having a gliding scale in color/darkness) is how he handled the water in his last painting "het witte huis/the white house", once the highest office building in Europe. Now it's surrounded by giants but still you'll be amazed how far you can see if you are on top of that building (i'm a postman myself and once i had to deliver a registered letter on the top floor). It's a wel known Rotterdam subject for painters.



Another place in Rotterdam that is painted a million times is Delfshaven. Once Rotterdam looked a lot like Amsterdam with it's lovely channels but unfortunately most of it was destroyed without anyone giving a damn. Delfshaven wasn't the best part of it by far but being one of the the last survivors of it's kind it's now one of Rotterdams main tourist attractions. My father made various paintings of it like this beauty.




Another famous place is the big library of Rotterdam. At precent day it is facing a huge indoor market place which is quite ugly. This painting is made years before. One of my favorite paintings of my father is from this spot as well when it was one big hole in order to replace the aired railway for an underground one. Unfortunately i don't have a picture of that epic painting. This one shows the outdoor market which is still there at precent day as well. Previously i complained to him that i found his buildings "to straight" and therefore lacking vivacity. Unfortunately he listened to me and in this painting he tried to do it a bit less strict. I didn't like it at all and urged him to pick up his old methods again. But the crowd is done very well.




Still, one of my favorites is one of his very first paintings done around the early 50-ties. His brother used to work in a bookshop and frequently brought home some very expensive art books that had to be returned after studying. One of these books contained a fabulous painting by Paul Klee and since my father loved to have it and had no money to buy it the only option was to buy himself the matching painting material and make a copy.

Request to all: we've never been able to trace the original, if anyone knows a link were to find it that would be awesome.



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 24 2017 21:45:20
 
pundi64

Posts: 235
Joined: Jul. 29 2016
From: Thailand

RE: Ravi Shankar & Ali Akbar Khan in... (in reply to estebanana

Maybe you should just relax and listen to the whole album, I think this was what intended
, if your not into Sitar, then just skip on by, don't be tortured.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 26 2018 20:19:59
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