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Swap

 

Posts: 15
Joined: Mar. 14 2017
 

Anybody in Seville currently? 

Hi,

I am Swapnil from India and I plan to travel to Seville this October and am particularly interested in joining the annual guitar course at the Cristina Heeren Foundation which opened a new school at Triana. I have been scouring online for reviews and information and would love to know the ground reality from a local. Even better would be a connect with someone who has or is currently pursuing an annual guitar course at the foundation.

Please respond if you are in Seville currently or can connect me to someone who does. Lots of questions to follow! Thank you!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 13:53:25
 
Piwin

Posts: 1452
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From: the land of Piwins

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

Sevilla is definitely a good place to go for flamenco. Lots of things going on.
As for that school in particular, I honestly don't know. Both Yago Santos and Tino van der Sman went through there so I guess that says at least a little something about the quality of the school (though it probably just says more about them as students than it does about anything else really).
If you haven't considered it, there's also the Cordoba conservatory, which is much cheaper and delivers a diploma recognized by the state (which I guess only matters if you want certain teaching jobs). Not sure the Heeren diploma is officially recognized.
What I can say is that the few dancers I've met that went to the Heeren school didn't regret it. Don't know if it's as good for guitar though.
Anyways, that's not much help but that's all I got! ^^

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 21:51:23
 
Erik van Goch

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

Both Tino and Paco Serrano graduated at Rotterdam Conservatory in 1997 (both final exams took place on the very same day in a local church). Paco Serrano became a teacher at the conservatory of Cordoba and Tino continued his musical journey becoming a student at the Cristina Heeren Foundation. After 1 year of study at the foundation he was offered a job as a guitar teacher which allowed him to settle in Seville. Tino always has been an extremely hard working student/artist who grabbed every opportunity to learn/develop with both hands.... with excellent results :-).

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 15 2017 23:38:10
 
Piwin

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From: the land of Piwins

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Erik van Goch

quote:

with excellent results

Indeed!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 1:25:36
 
Leñador

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

Sitting in the airport leaving Sevilla, boooo haha
I've known a few guitarists that went to Christina Hereen and didn't regret it. Beyond the teaching you can make great connections if you show talent/are likeable.
The ONLY bad thing I've heard is be careful if your teacher says "You need to buy a guitar here." They may be making a little side cash.... and even that may have just been one guy there.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 7:58:52
 
estebanana

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Leñador

quote:

The ONLY bad thing I've heard is be careful if your teacher says "You need to buy a guitar here." They may be making a little side cash.... and even that may have just been one guy there.


When that guy tours Japan and makes a lotta easy money I'm gonna say, " You need to buy a guitar here."

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 8:54:55
 
Dudnote

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From: Living in Guadeloupe

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Leñador

quote:

ORIGINAL: Leñador

Sitting in the airport leaving Sevilla, boooo haha
I've known a few guitarists that went to Christina Hereen and didn't regret it. Beyond the teaching you can make great connections if you show talent/are likeable.
The ONLY bad thing I've heard is be careful if your teacher says "You need to buy a guitar here." They may be making a little side cash.... and even that may have just been one guy there.

Wow! Sounds like He Who Must Not Be Named - but I thought he was in Malaga.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 9:20:58
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Piwin

quote:

Cordoba conservatory


Thanks for the response Piwin. I tried to look for details regarding Cordoba Conservatory but couldn't find much. The navigation on the website is rather poor. This is what I was trying to look into: http://www.csmcordoba.com/

Is this the conservatory you were referring to? I couldn't find detailed information on the flamenco guitar course and the highlight seems to be orchestral bands and wind instruments. Thanks again.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 12:35:39
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Erik van Goch

Thanks for shedding light on the Tino van der Sman. The Rotterdam Conservatory is also tempting but I can't devote 4 years. I shall be quitting my job to pursue this for a year......and at great cost. Good to know that they have good teachers at Cristina Heeren.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 12:38:24
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Leñador

Thank you for the insight and the word of caution Lenador. I do intend to buy a guitar in Spain. Don't have a great budget. I am inlcined towards the Camps Primera guitar.....although I intend to play a lot of guitars there, considering I have never really played a good guitar before. I am open to buying a guitar that plays well and has a good sound stage and durable construction. Learned a lot by reading posts on this forum.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 12:41:05
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

I need to have some estimate on the nitty-gritty of living in Triana. For instance, how much would I need to spend for a modest accommodation. I can share rooms and can do with basic, no frills amenities. Basically, I am not very keen on spending a large sum on accommodation. Will 4500 euros (my tuition fee for a year) be enough to stay in Triana for a year?

Does the institute have any hidden costs I should be worried about? Can I get work in Triana being an international student? I am post graduate in India. Will that help?

Still looking for someone who has undergone the experience to tell me better about the place. Thank you everyone.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 12:49:29
 
Piwin

Posts: 1452
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From: the land of Piwins

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

Lenador posted this on another thread not too long ago.
https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/seville
I think it's pretty accurate. And then accomodation is surely cheaper if you decide to live a bit outside the city.

Here's the details for the Cordoba track:
http://www.csmcordoba.com/plan-de-estudios-loe/72-estudios/plan-de-estudios-loe/474-especialidad-flamenco-itinerario-de-guitarra-flamenca
It's a general conservatory so of course they have other instruments but they have a flamenco department with good teachers.

If a year is 12 months (I just mean by that the Heeren course is maybe what 9 or 10 months?) then 4500/12=375 euros a month. In Triana? No way. If you get a place to stay outside of the city and are sharing it with others, then you can bring accomodation prices way down but in Triana itself that probably will cover just the rent, if even.
I don't want to discourage you from going to the Heeren school but if money is an issue it may not be you're smartest choice. I guess one advantage of that school is that you're pretty much all set once you start, but if you're willing to rough it and have an adventure, there a plenty of local schools that you won't find on the internet, plenty of individual teachers also that'll be more than happy to teach. Over a year's time that'll definitely be cheaper and you'll have more money left to go out and see some flamenco, and you can get the history/theory lessons just by badgering the guys at a pena.
Another advantage of that is that I doubt most places make you pay for the whole year in advance. In other words, if you don't like a place, you can always change whereas Heeren pretty much locks you in for the whole year.
Anyways, that's the way I'd approach it, but that's just me. That being said, maybe the Heeren school goes a long way for you securing a visa? Don't know how all that works. I think there are certain conditions under which you can work on a foreign student visa. Worst case scenario you can just put some ads up for tutoring in whatever you can and just do it off the grid. Your best bet for figuring that out is just to call the Spanish embassy in your country.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 14:59:51
 
Morante

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

quote:

I need to have some estimate on the nitty-gritty of living in Triana.


People think of Triana as it was 30 or 40 years ago. Nowadays, all the gitanos have been thrown out and it is now a barrio upper class chic. Even the Feria has long since been moved farther out. An expensive place to stay.

You should consider Jerez.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 18:14:11
 
Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

quote:


You should consider Jerez.

Not a bad idea, a fair amount cheaper and that city pulses flamenco. You'd have to just go and start asking around for teachers which is not as formal but you'd get the super authentic experience. And if you don't like it Christina Hereen is a 45 minute bus ride, switching home base would be easy.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 21:49:11
 
estebanana

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

quote:

People think of Triana as it was 30 or 40 years ago. Nowadays, all the gitanos have been thrown out and it is now a barrio upper class chic. Even the Feria has long since been moved farther out. An expensive place to stay.

You should consider Jerez.
 


Yeah better idea. And if you are Indian you will fit in better than us big lurching white guys who scare everyone. You might go far in Jerez.

Sevilla is probably like a flamenco puppy mill today.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 16 2017 23:20:50
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Morante

Thank you for the clarification Morante. I did consider travelling to Jerez, Granada, Sevilla and even Cordoba to complete my education with some adventure but it is not easy to get a long term visa (1 year or rather more than 3 months) without an enrollment in an institute for the said duration. The most I can manage without a long term visa is 90 days.

Enrolling in Cristina Heeren will help me get the visa and extend my stay. It receives substantial international students and my poor grasp of Spanish (working on it) will not put me at a great disadvantage there.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2017 9:56:51
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Leñador

I agree. It does sound like a good idea. But as I stated to Morante earlier, I can't extend the duration of my stay to more than 90 stays if I plan to get an informal education (as in not formally recognised by the Spanish government). I could travel to the foundation daily from Jerez though if it helps me cut costs and enrich my experience. Thank you.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2017 9:59:59
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to estebanana

Ha! And I thought white guys were welcome everywhere and fit in easily! I could certainly make Jerez my home base and travel to the foundation. Would really like to know more. Still on the lookout to speak to a former or current student of the Cristina Heeren Foundation. Thank you.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 17 2017 10:03:15
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

Hi everyone.

I just wanted to share an update regarding my search for information about the Cristina Heeren institute. I chanced upon a website of one of the former students of the institute (www.leahguitar.com) and spoke to her about it.

While she had good things to say about the institute, she maintained that the course structure is rigid and teaches traditional flamenco and helping students play their interpretation of flamenco would not be possible during the course. One can do that by practicing with other students though and it is a great place to learn, collaborate and meet the right people to learn from.

She also reiterated my concern that anyone from outside the EU would require an official letter from an institute such as Cristina Heeren to stay in Spain for more than 3 months, which is why it makes for a good choice for international students. The conservatories are quite good but have long term courses (4 year diplomas). So I guess the Heeren institute seems to be the best choice for me. Thank you all for your help. Would keep you guys posted about this.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 11:14:25
 
Erik van Goch

 

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From: Netherlands

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

quote:

ORIGINAL: Swap

While she had good things to say about the institute, she maintained that the course structure is rigid and teaches traditional flamenco and helping students play their interpretation of flamenco would not be possible during the course.


I don't know the Cristina Heeren Foundation and the way they work but i know from experience that not every claim made by students always is bomb proof. When in the 60ties my father became a student of the classical guitar teacher Willy Martin everybody was highly surprised because that teacher was known for "only letting you play Carulli". In reality he let people play Carruli until he considered them ready for the next step and apparently most never past that stage. With my father however he worked on al 36 capricious of Legnany (covering all keys so good reading exercise), various etudes of Aquado for the technique and Sor for the musical expression.

Later on when my father became a teacher of the Rotterdam Conservatory one of his students believed that he only gave lessons in technique (and the other teachers covered the interpretation) because during most lessons with that student he focused on technique. In reality however my father favored working with people who already had a solid technique so he could focus on his real specialty.... the interpretation. The only reason that with that particular student he focused on technique so much was that in his opinion that student had not the technical level yet to work on interpretation.

Still, when i studied flamenco with my father i (and most others) basically had to start from scratch again and only after a proper period of pretty rigid technique and compas building we reached levels were we could start working on personal interpretation. He was also the main teacher of Tino who had private lessons of him for about 7 years.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 22:06:38
 
Piwin

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

quote:

to stay in Spain for more than 3 months


Yep. Too bad it's no longer like in other places where you can still just leave the country for a day and come back the day after and be all set for another 3 months. Especially since a day trip to Morocco is always nice.
Oh well..

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2017 22:28:38
 
Leñador

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From: Los Angeles

RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

quote:

While she had good things to say about the institute, she maintained that the course structure is rigid and teaches traditional flamenco and helping students play their interpretation of flamenco would not be possible during the course.

That sounds correct to me. You can't have an interpretation of flamenco until you can play and understand flamenco well.....like, years and years generally. Otherwise you're probably just writing spanishy sounding guitar music, not flamenco.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2017 1:00:29
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Piwin

Unfortunately, can't do that under the Schengen visa protocols. Can only apply for a fresh tourist visa once every six months. Extension of visa requires a valid cause, such as an employment letter or an admission letter.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2017 11:21:28
 
Swap

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Leñador

Interpretations can be tricky. True, it wouldn't be traditional flamenco if the compas of a particular palo is changed and it is embellished with other styles of music. But even within flamenco, traditional pieces are open to interpretation. For example, check out this Farruca by John Amir Haddad:

Such rich chord voicing and atmospheric, melancholic tone. It is quite different from Paco Pena's Farruca. It would be great of the course explores the various moods that the flamenco guitar can express.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2017 11:53:36
 
athrane77

 

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2017 17:02:30
 
eweinsc1

 

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RE: Anybody in Seville currently? (in reply to Swap

Hi! I'm actually also looking in the school for cante. I'm from the US myself, so staying more than three months would be impossible without an established school to give me a visa. does anyone have any reviews on the school or personal experience ? @the original poster do you think you will go in the end? are there any otheR similar flamenco schools in Andalucía like Cristina heeren that can accommodate us non-EU folks with the visa?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 9 2017 2:36:20
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