Historical recordings

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Njål Bendixen

Posts: 65
Joined: Aug. 25 2016

Historical recordings

Hi All

I am new to flamenco. I wish to study the source of all of this. I am interested in the earliest ever recordings. Can anyone recommend any cds, and where to buy them?

Thanks a lot.

Njaal

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 9:07:34

Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

Juan Breva:

https://www.amazon.com/Catedra-Del-Cante-Vol-Breva/dp/B000V8MSJ2/ref=sr_1_2?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1473699491&sr=1-2&keywords=Juan+Breva

He died in 1918, so the recordings can’t be any later than that

Montoya on guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 12 2016 17:00:58

Dudnote

Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 13 2007

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

This is pretty historic...
http://www.sonifolk.com/iflam14.htm

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 2:22:33

mark indigo

Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

I have this one, the recording is dated as 1909

https://www.amazon.com/Arte-Flamenco-Vol-Anta%C3%B1o-1844-%C2%961918/dp/B00000AY4J/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1473766815&sr=1-3&keywords=Juan+Breva

The oldest recordings are not necessarily the "source" - each generation has taken their cultural inheritance and interpreted it in their own ways, and adding their own creations.... some styles mentioned in earlier writings had already disappeared by the time audio recording began (eg. playeras), other styles were firmly established before recordings began and are well documented in recordings (eg. Siguiriyas, Soleares), others have been developed since the advent of recording technology and are poorly represented in the earliest recordings (eg. Bulerías). Tangos is supposed to have existed before Tientos evolved, but on the earliest recordings I have Tientos is represented, but not Tangos. Later on Tangos seems to have revived, and modern recordings are full of Tangos.... but not so much Tientos....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 11:49:59

Ricardo

Posts: 14806
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

The source recordings are pretty bad (wax cylinder) in the late 1800's and pretty much show fully formed flamenco.

Recording tech got a lot better in 1900's so it's better to start listening from there.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 15:02:57

El Kiko

Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Ricardo)

Wowo , that is difficult to listen to ...
there is software that could clean it up somewhat ,, take that treble crackle off ,
it may not help though ... some here could try that if they had the time ...
but its interesting though ...
jeez ... a wax cylinder in Andalucia ... it would melt ... !

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 13 2016 17:47:51

Pimientito

Posts: 2481
Joined: Jul. 30 2007
From: Marbella

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to El Kiko)

quote:

jeez ... a wax cylinder in Andalucia ... it would melt ... !

Haha... it was pretty hard to hear the music under the crackling. Its amazing any of those cylinders survived. I have to say that I am impressed with Vinyl. If its kept well, you can play 70 or 80 year old recordings and they still sound good. Our digital recordings will not last nearly as long!

Ricardo - there was discussion earlier about how Soleares is generally played more slowly today than 100 years ago. That recording you posted is more like solea por buleria today.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2016 10:29:04

RobJe

Posts: 731
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

Try this 2 CD set

Cilindros de Cera. Primeras grabaciones de Flamenco

Available on ebay at http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-CDs-FLAMENCO-Cilindros-De-Cera-Primeras-Grabaciones-De-Flamenco-/320876792364

or at DEFLAMENCO

Rob

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 15 2016 14:13:57

aloysius

Posts: 233
Joined: Apr. 7 2005
From: Adelaide, Australia

RE: Historical recordings (in reply to Njål Bendixen)

^ I'm a big fan of the Cilindros de Cera CD set, they've cleaned up the sound really well.

Another great source of early flamenco is the book + audio DVD by Norman Kliman & Rafael Chaves Arcos "Los Cantes Mineros - a través de los registros de pizarra y cilindros". The book is 568 pages long and is incredibly comprehensive, and the dvd has several hundred audio tracks, the earliest from the 1890s, the majority from 1910 - 1930 (as the title suggests the tracks are all cantes mineros). Not something you would play at a dinner party of non-aficionados, but for the hardcore flamenco nerd this is fantastic.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 20 2016 11:14:23