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Posts: 6444
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
UK votes out of the EU
Sorry guys, we did our best but I feel further from my friends in Europe than ever.
The Prime Minister has resigned, Scotland will push for another independence referendum and leave, Northern Ireland will descend into sectarian conflict and Wales will not want to hang around.
Other discontented countries may well cause the implosion of the EU.
I am going to apply for an Irish passport through my ancestors, but I am not convinced there will be an EU by then.
A very sad for me, half my countrymen and thousands of EU residents in the UK.
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
Strange times.
I bet Cameron has a hangover worse than the time he ****ed a pig (he's the one to blame, he called the referendum, then resigns when the going gets bad...)
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
Crazy times upon us indeed. Im applying for Spanish passport so that i dont need a VISA to live in Spain in 2 years time, although we still might not have a Spanish government by then. Next on list is president Trump who might actually build a wall between England and France when he has run out of Mexican border to build on.........
Posts: 6444
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Pimientito)
quote:
Im applying for Spanish passport so that i dont need a VISA to live in Spain in 2 years time, although we still might not have a Spanish government by then
You have to relinquish British citizenship don't you? Not that it will mean anything by then.
Posts: 6444
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to minorthang)
quote:
whats the process???out of interest
We read up on it in Spain a while back, as my wife is Mexican and they enjoy a preference, but we were completely blocked by sloooooooow bureaucracy and ridiculous documentation requirements.
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
Well its not so complex to become a Spanish citizen if you are a member of an EU country so I imagine the State secretary is going to be bombarded with a half million citizen apllications this month!!
Even though you have to reliquish your British Citizenship to Spain, a British citizen can never renounce their citizenship so what happens is that UK citizens get their passports sent to the UK government, who then send it back to you so that you in effect have dual nationality.
A Uk citizen can get Spanish citizenship if they have lived in Spain as a tax resident for 10 years, have no criminal record and can prove they speak Spanish and have integrated into Spanish society (which might prove a problem for half the Marbella residents)
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
Sad news indeed. Though after decades of politicians saving their own asses by blaming the EU, spreading lies in all part of society about the extent to which the EU "overregulates" and thereby impedes progress, it was sadly to be expected. French politicians have been playing this little game for decades too. Were we too have a referendum now, the results would most likely be the same as in the UK (the French did in fact say no to further political integration with the EU back in 2003 but our political leaders utterly disregarded the results of the referendum...ah, true democracy!).
What this means for the future is hard to tell. If other countries follow suit, then it would most likely mean the end of what I consider to have been the most promising and hopeful political endeavour of the last century. Some optimistic voices have stated that this could be an unprecedented opportunity for the EU to further progress, as the UK was one of the major forces working against any further integration (and always kept the EU at arms length for that matter: no Shengen, no euro, etc.). Though I can't say that today I feel all that optimistic... Maybe tomorrow... I have a hard time understanding how anyone considers such a step back as progress. But so goes it. Perhaps after we've gone back to strong nation-states, we can move back to religious groups, and then all the way back to tribes as the basic political unit. After all, everyone knows that all of these big international organizations only bring peace and prosperity and it was so much better back in the paleo days where you had to worry about waging war or conducting raids on the neighbors that lived in the next-door forest. I can't see how this is a step forward. The next generation of voters, those who never knew what life was like without the "borderless" internet, simply won't understand this reflex of closing the doors shut.
In the meantime, this is the part where we've broken up, and you're packing up your stuff in boxes, where we have to decide whether we can still be friends or if we really shouldn't see each other any more. That uncomfortable moment that last maybe a few days or a week but that in the political arena has to be drawn out over two full years. It'll be awkward. But you won't hear me complain. I'm the lucky one, the one who gets to keep the house.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Pimientito)
quote:
Even though you have to reliquish your British Citizenship to Spain, a British citizen can never renounce their citizenship so what happens is that UK citizens get their passports sent to the UK government, who then send it back to you so that you in effect have dual nationality.
Makes sense When I was growing up, some friends of mine from German parents (living in France) had to go through the harrowing process of choosing a country upon reaching 18 years of age. I think Germany has changed its policy since though and that Germans can now hold dual citizenship.
After the November 13th attacks in Paris, one of the things the French government proposed was to target dual citizens (didn't seem to matter that none of the attackers save one were all French with no other nationality to speak of...). Fortunately the bill never passed. What was interesting was the reaction of people who didn't understand the outcry of dual citizens against this bill. The main idea was that dual citizens have more passports, so they are therefore "privileged". They don't seem to have understood that it also means filling out two tax statements each year, paying more in taxes upfront than what you actually owe until both countries get it right and reimburse you, not being able to purchase any property because you'd have to pay property taxes in both countries, etc. etc. (just for my own case as dual citizen France-USA, but it varies depending on the countries involved).
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
They don't seem to have understood that it also means filling out two tax statements each year, paying more in taxes upfront than what you actually owe
Thats because of the USA passport that you have. The IRS will never let you go!!! In Europe you are taxed in the country of residence regardless of your passport
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Pimientito)
Ha. Yeah the IRS is as relentless as they come! About being taxed in the country of residence, doesn't that apply just in the EU? In other words, two years down the line, if you become a Spanish citizen but can't officially relinquish your UK citizenship and the UK is no longer in the EU, I wonder what would happen then tax wise... Worst case scenario, you could see if Mexico still has some money left and make them pay to build a wall around Andalucia to keep the British tax collectors out
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Posts: 3472
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
The UK's departure from the EU is, on balance, a mistake to be sure, in my opinion. I would rather have seen a vote to remain. Nevertheless, If I were British I would not be too quick to assume another nationality and give up my British citizenship. Stranger things have happened, and after everything is sorted out it may not be as bad as some think. World stock markets are experiencing volatility as a result, but my guess is they will calm down and stabilize. While international trade deals, tariffs, and other aspects of Britain's economic relationships with both the EU and the rest of the world will have to be negotiated (renegotiated), it may take time but can be done.
While the main complaint on immigration has been directed against members of recent EU members (Poles, Rumanians, Bulgarians, Albanians, etc.), I think there was a large fear-factor that Brussels would impose a quota of illegal migrants from Syria, Afghanistan, Iraq, and various African countries (many of whom are economic migrants, not refugees) on Britain in trying to distribute the load among EU countries. This fear may have been fanned by right-wing xenophobes, but I don't think it was totally irrational among many in the British public.
From my point of view, the three most important consequences of the UK vote are:
A. It may well lead to the break-up of the UK, with Scotland leaving, followed by the possibility of Wales and Northern Ireland following suit.
B. It may accelerate a movement to leave the EU among other countries dissatisfied with Brussels, eventually leading to the dissolution of the EU.
C. From a strictly US foreign policy viewpoint, the US loses a voice within the EU, provided by Britain, advocating policies on which both the US and UK jointly agree.
In any case this certainly is a historic move that may have far-reaching negative implications. Or maybe not. It will be interesting to see how it all sorts out.
Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to BarkellWH)
Living here in Ireland , the UK leaving is a massive problem ... Because of the border ...the only land border ..took years to get it down and now one can move freely , but its a gonna be a EU to nonEU border ..it will be up again ... and thats what everyone here , north and south are dead against ..as it makes the last 20 years or more of negotiation and trouble all a waste of time .... I really believe that many people that voted to leave were perhaps just seeing one aspect , and not looking at the big picture and things that would affect them , but not immediately ...
I also think that when the ball starts rolling , a lot of people will regret the changes that they may not want , and would vote differently if they could go back and do it again ... This is gonna be a real problem ....course Nigel Farage and his ''independance day '' is right into all this,, its his moment and the NF will be right there to cheer him on ...until it al goes wrong ....wont be long ..that
quote:
am going to apply for an Irish passport through my ancestors
Ill put a good word in for you in Dublin when Im up there ....Jamesons whiskey may help you in your quest ..
I also think that when the ball starts rolling , a lot of people will regret the changes that they may not want , and would vote differently if they could go back and do it again ...
You're giving people too much credit. I think they'll find something or someone else to blame. Anything else than themselves and their own decisions.
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Escribano)
you dont have to anyway ...I have more than one passport ....they're not mutually exclusive ,,if you have mixed parents and birth places etc .. its perfectly legal to have a few nationalities and equal rights in more than one country
its perfectly legal to have a few nationalities and equal rights in more than one country
As far as I know, it depends on the countries involved. Most western countries have made it easier to hold dual citizenship over the last few decades, but it all depends on the bi/multilateral agreements in place plus the domestic legislation of each country.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
Even within the EU it varies from country to country. I think Denmark made dual citizenship possible just last year. Before that it was entirely forbidden. Estonia and Norway still forbid it. Then you have odd rules, like Spain who grants dual citizenship to any Sephardi Jew, no matter what their other nationality is. Most EU countries do allow it though. I think Ireland is somewhat unique in that they almost encourage dual citizenship. Then you have those countries like Austria and the Netherlands where you're stripped of your citizenship if you voluntarily obtain another (if Pimientito were Austrian and applied for Spanish citizenship, he'd lose his Austrian citizenship automatically). If a Spanish citizen acquires another nationality, they also lose their Spanish citizenship after a certain number of years depending on various factors, i.e. they don't loose it if it's a country with which Spain has a dual citizenship agreement and/or if the person requests to keep their Spanish citizenship. Anyways, yeah in general it's a safe bet that you can have dual citizenship in the EU and most western countries, but even there there are quite a few exceptions.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
just to be awkward ..... what if I lived in a country that that did not recognise dual citizenship , maybe Venezuela , but had 3 valid passports , even though none of them were Vanezuelan ...?/would they recognise them ? even though its against their law ? but cant make you give up a nationality thats not theirs .... .. .sorry ..just typing out loud ...
RE: UK votes out of the EU (in reply to Pimientito)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Pimientito
A Uk citizen can get Spanish citizenship if they have lived in Spain as a tax resident for 10 years, have no criminal record and can prove they speak Spanish and have integrated into Spanish society (which might prove a problem for half the Marbella residents)
That makes the most right wing UK politicians seem left wing.
Hum.. I honestly don't know. Whenever I've lived abroad, I've only used one of my passports. As far as the Spanish are concerned, I'm French (which just made the process of getting set up here a whole lot easier than if I'd used my US passport) and I'm not going to try my luck by throwing in another citizenship. I think it'd be like throwing a pebble in a small cog than then leads to the entire machine blowing-up. In the scenario you describe, I'm trying to think of a situation where that would even come up. I mean sure, if you applied for Venezuelan citizenship, it'd come up, but otherwise... And what happens if you get caught smuggling drugs out of Venezuela and you have 3 passports. Where do they extradite you to???
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
yeah i should have thought about my drug smuggling trip to Venezuela a bit more first ...maybe i get a choice of extradition ...or ..eeny , meny , miney ... assuming I get caught ...taking the drugs to a nordic country that also does not recognise more than one of my passports ... honestly , its getting so difficult to make a living as a normal , down to earth drug smuggler these days ...persecuted for having dual nationality , I am...
Ugh. And don't get me going on the EU and human trafficking. Free circulation of goods they said... And now it's almost impossible for an honest human trafficker such as myself to make a living...
Sheesh.
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"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
How about you move to Canada and then when Trump gets elected those of us from the US can join you? http://cbiftrumpwins.com/#intro
Trump or no Trump we should all go live in Cap Breton. The Acadians rock!
_____________________________
"Anything you do can be fixed. What you cannot fix is the perfection of a blank page. What you cannot fix is that pristine, unsullied whiteness of a screen or a page with nothing on it—because there’s nothing there to fix."
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