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Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

Modern Method Books 

Hi Foro Folks,

I haven't been here for a few years, in fact I haven't played flamenco for just as long. Life has too many distractions. But I've never stopped listening to flamenco, or watching it on the Tube.

When I first got the taste for flamenco guitar, there only seemed to be Juan Martin's El Arte Flamenco. That wasn't really the case, but it was the only book I ever saw.

The next time I started into flamenco, the Graf-Martinez books were out, and Manuel Granados had a few books.

This time I looked at Storemusic (other stores available!) and found dozens of method books - almost too many. Just looking at the store descriptions, it's difficult to really get a sense of the musical language used by each author - traditional, modern, jazz-influenced, neo-traditional (I just made that one up, but it probably exists).

Maybe you can help me out? I don't speak Spanish, so books with English in them somewhere would help, but, depending on the book's content, that might not be necessary.

The authors I'm looking at are:

Jorge Berges
Andrés Batista (lots of books)
David Leiva
Manuel Granados - many more books than I remember: Didactic Manual, Academic Treatise, Visual Method, etc.
Oscar Herrero
Juan Martin - many more books. Is he still mining the old school, traditional falsettos and compases?
Claude Worms
Oscar Herero AND Claude Worms together


Where would you place these guys on the line from Traditional to Very Modern?

Are there any particular books you would recommend? I'm not a complete beginner.

Any other author I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 12 2016 22:19:48
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

OK, so no one uses books anymore. That's progress
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2016 15:43:22
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1574
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

quote:

Where would you place these guys on the line from Traditional to Very Modern?


The date of first publication should be a reasonable guide.

Since you’re not a complete beginner, my favourite books for the pre-Lucía style are Juan Grecos’s The Flamenco Guitar, Juan Martín’s original offering, and Dennis Koster’s trilogy, the last of which comes with a CD.

If videos are your thing, then Graf-Martínez.

quote:

…traditional falsettos and compases


That’s falsetas

Hope this helps.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2016 16:54:00
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Paul Magnussen

Thanks, Paul. Genuine spellchecker-bomb on the falsetas. I've now directed my computer to "Learn Spelling".

I have Koster's first book - awaiting the others to appear from Mel Bay, if ever. I have Juan Martin's El Arte, as well as the first book of studies. Haven't seen Juan Greco's book.

But this is my point - all these books have been around for years, decades even. Yet the website of Storemusic shows a few dozen more books than were available before. I was just wondering about their standard and style, and who used them.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 13 2016 22:00:58
 
Leñador

Posts: 5229
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

quote:


OK, so no one uses books anymore. That's progress

Your kind of spot on. Between YouTube, website subscriptions, free websites, Skype, and more flamencos around the world to teach in person, books are not of the same value they once were. It's easier to learn flamenco than it's ever been in the past. Although nothing beats everything in person, nasty looks from dancers, wagging fingers from cantaores, that's really how you learn. Lol

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 2:26:20
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Haha. I can well imagine that is true.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 7:03:40

Piwin

Posts: 2208
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

quote:

Are there any particular books you would recommend? I'm not a complete beginner.


Manuel Granados has IMO the most thorough work on technique out there. Mainly in his "manuel didactico" (4 or 5 of them I think).
He has put up quite a few exercices (and one of his book on theory) on his website that are downloadable free of charge:
http://www.manuelgranados.net/estudios-descargas/
I don't know about the palos sections and pieces, never really made it to learning pieces from method books (at the exception of the Encuentro series). My loss I have no doubt.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 16:40:14
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Cheers, Piwin. Good to know.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 14 2016 17:28:17
 
Brendan

Posts: 167
Joined: Oct. 30 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Oscar Herrero tends to be a bit more modern, even in exercises. If you want a mix of styles, try this: http://www.oscarherreroediciones.es/ediciones/libros-ed/armonia-del-flamenco-1/

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2016 8:37:23
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Thanks, Brendan. The pdf is very interesting. I like the musical examples. The one from PdL is really out there! I might get this book.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2016 9:21:46
 
Escribano

Posts: 5899
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Piwin

+1 for Manual Granados Vol 1 and Vol 2, at least that is as far as I got and found them very helpful.

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 15 2016 9:25:56
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11097
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rob MacKillop

OK, so no one uses books anymore. That's progress


The more stuck beginners have been sitting at home with their books since the start, the working pros never opened any book about flamenco guitar in most cases. I must admit I dont' see a whole lot of value except at the very initial stage, and even then there needs to be a teacher to guide toward improvisation/arranging and UTILIZING the material in functioning context. However, the academic side of me also simply enjoys "books" to some extent, about music.

I notice the other thread about methods throughout history and it seems you are focused about "Modern" flamenco here, or at least books from the modern era. Keep in mind there is not really, despite popular miss conceptions, a special method for modern style flamenco vs the old school. It's the same. What we have are the specific transcriptions which contain all the info needed. I prescribe to the work of Alain Faucher, new or old players, and the video/book series by Encuentro. Both of these approaches are "player specific", but at the high level that is what it comes down to. If I were to generalize about technique, the players in the series that are more similar to PDL/Sanlucar/ ie coming from Niño Ricardo school, I would stick guys like Nunez, Tomatito, M. Franco, Chicuelo, Riqueni, from the series Encuentro together. The other players tend to have a unique or personal take on techniques, though have equally advanced music:Moraito, Habichuela, Merengue de Cordoba, etc. Again these are generalizations. Nuñez is the unique teacher of the series that separated his own compositions, the modern style music, from what he considers the more traditional repertoire.

From there you have the score books of well known albums that can always be taken as a treatise or "method" of a particular style and it's time, not unlike the way Bach suites or Beethoven sonatas are used in classical music education world. I know what most students are looking for is "pieces of graduating difficulty" with flamenco guitar methods, but the world of flamenco as a discipline is not really so neatly packaged. IMO.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2016 0:14:54
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Fair enough, Ricardo. I get the point about player-centred books. I just like books, always have, but that doesn't mean I play like I've only learned from books. Far from it.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 19 2016 7:08:12
 
rob taft

 

Posts: 2
Joined: Mar. 24 2016
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Rob, Dennis Koster's Volume 2 is available at Amazon. I'm in the US but I see it is also available in the UK. See link. If posting the Amazon link is not allowed, I apologize.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Flamenco-Guitar-Dennis-Koster-Advanced/dp/1585600067/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1461355910&sr=8-2&keywords=dennis+koster
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 22 2016 20:17:52
 
Rob MacKillop

Posts: 65
Joined: Oct. 18 2010
 

RE: Modern Method Books (in reply to Rob MacKillop

Thanks, Rob. Appreciated!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Apr. 22 2016 21:36:15
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