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RE: All the Solea
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: All the Solea (in reply to BAFF)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: BAFF I would like to participate in this discussion about cante por soleá. I haven't posted in this forum for years but I do still sing a bit of soleá from time to time. The video estebanana posted with Terremoto and Manuel Morao is a classic of Jerez style soleá where they are actually doing what folks outside of Jerez would probably call "soleá por bulerías" and which in Jerez is sometimes called "bulerías pa' escuchar." Another observation is that classic cante gitano, even when accompanied by guitar, does not usually have the oppressively square metronome compás that a lot people consider gospel. If I have time, I'll post the lyrics later. IMO, there are 3 ways to look at compas for cante accompaniment (Solea specifically, but we can generalize with some other forms). 1. Metronomic (steady tempo) plow through, let the cante lie loosely over the structure and catch tonos on 3 or 10 as they might come. That is most puro old school way to do it, practically dead now. Morao is doing this for Terremoto as would Montoya Ricardo Melchor etc. 2. Square box perfect fit melody to fit the BAILE. This is most common I see since the 70's. Guitar could almost pre record tonos or ignore the singer with this mind set and it all works out. 3. Elastic compas/moving tempo, which allows (forces IMO) to fit what was once the loose melody graft, INTO the box concept of number 2. A good guitarist will have to decide which of the 3 situations above he/she is dealing with and do the appropriate thing or take flack for it. About the Terremoto Morao vid....let me go from general to specific of what I am seeing. 1. Solea por buleria. 2. Two Jerezanos representing Solea de Jerez. 3. A mix of solea styles and bulerias, set to a relatively fast Solea por medio guitar accompaniment. 4. Some Solea from Utrera and Triana interpreted in that special Jerezano way, peppered by a couple buleria cortas. 5. Ok time for specifics. First letra la Serneta 1, interpreted more like the connective flowing Manuel Torre way. 2nd letra is buleria corta. 3rd is serneta 6 but with that Frijones 2 high note (7th degree, it's normally only up to the 6th) at the start. 4th, another buleria corta 5th is La Andonda 1, again with that frijones high note delver to start. 6th remate por buleria major key. Important to note the driving metronomic compas forcing Morao to deal with half compas remates often (resolve at count 3 instead of 10), yet no break of 12 beat cycle, and delvering every cambio in reverse (F-C7 instead of C7-F). We could get more specific with lines of verse and strumming techniques and even those cool pulgar falsetas. I will leave it at the first lyric for the Serneta I have heard both Zambo (on Tomatito's solo guitar album Paseos de los castaños) and his "student" poveda (with Chicuelo qwwali and live video with Duquende) deliver that lyric por buleria. Good example how the buleria and Solea are related structurally. Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 1 2016 17:31:41
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: All the Solea (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leñador How about if you're learning to actually sing cante? Seems like it'd be best to really stay on compas till you know what your doing..... My advice to singer students, assuming you are serious about it and not just messing around, is to pick a letra you like, identify it as per Norman's site, then treat the letra as you would any complex falseta. Transcribe it note by note, every detail. Use the Amazing slow downer and adjust the key for your voice, slow it WAY down and get it EXACT, every detail. speed it up gradually until you can do it at proper tempo. Sing along with original if you can get the pitch (octave below can work), then try to do it with compas loop or metronome by yourself. Finally, if you ever want to sing in public instead of in the shower, record yourself and be critical about 3 things: 1. Is it correct? Is it how the actual song goes or do you still have discrepencies (actual notes and rhythms) to the original you try to copy? 2. Do you sound authentic? If not, what's the problem? What would you need to change? Accent? Vocal quality? Key? Expression? 3. Is it good? Do you like it? Would you actually say this is a good example of cante? If you can't say yes to all 3 I would stick to singing in the shower. Of course if you just want to have aficion I guess no 3 is a tall order. Unfortunately we already have too many "singers" who think they are the sh1t already and love themselves without having no. 1 down yet. Ricardo
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 1 2016 20:12:54
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Ricardo
Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: All the Solea (in reply to Leñador)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Leñador quote:
My advice to singer students, assuming you are serious about it and not just messing around, is to pick a letra you like, identify it as per Norman's site, Is that because those are like.......I guess archetypes would be the word......??? I'm assuming there would be specific letras from specific cantaores that you wouldn't want to copy as a new student because it's kind of........too unique, breaks too many "rules" and without deeper understanding of why you wouldn't want to make that your "first solea" let's say?? There is no real bare bones skeleton, just different interpretations. So the reason you need to id it is so you have a reference for what the hell you are learning. Like learning a falseta, it's good to know who first played it, even if you are doing Diego del Morao's version. Later on you will compare what you know to variations. It could be that the one specific version you are learning has a unique detail, or is special compared to the norm, or has a challenging twist other versions don't have. Doesn't matter so long as YOU understand in context what's going on.
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CD's and transcriptions available here: www.ricardomarlow.com
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Date Apr. 1 2016 20:30:18
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Leñador
Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles
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RE: All the Solea (in reply to estebanana)
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quote:
So keep on being brave and upload your singing here. We need you. Also when you have some letras and if you have the chance, go to Spain and try to find a peña with a relaxed atmosphere. The peña I was member of in Huelva, (La peña el higueral) some of the amateur singers got together saturday afternoon. They would love to hear you sing and would be very helpfull. So helpfull that they would all talk and discuss very loudly and fill you with Fino, Rioja, chorizo y queso, so that you would get all dizzy and forget what you had learnt. Thanks Anders, my desire to sing is really just, one, because it's fun, and two, develop a greater understanding and appreciation of the art. I have no dilutions of thinking I'll ever be good at it but that's very fine with me, I just want to understand it and for me the best way is to try and do it. A few years ago I watched a Paco Cepero interview and he basically said "any good guitarist really just wants to be a singer." And it kind of stuck with me. That Peña sounds amazing!! Looking like I'll be getting back there next year :/ likely around Lebrija where I have the most connections... Nice vids Piwin!!
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Date Apr. 2 2016 12:43:30
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