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DavRom

 

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

Mixing flamenco guitar 

currently listening to Geraldo, i've been meaning to ask about this cuz i've been noticing it on some flamenco recordings but couldn't remember which

if you have Travesia (who doesn't?! puristas?) go to 1:39 of Ítaca and listen to the fade. it's so unmusical on such a beautiful piece that it always distracts me from the playing

i've heard it in other places and wondered if there was some noise issue in recording flamenco guitar that mix engineers try to mask

anyone in the know about this?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 22 2015 22:10:56
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

I believe that "noise" is an electric guitar with a volume swell.

edit: Sorry, wrong track.

Now the right track, "ítaca".

That sounds like an edit. He played the first part and the next part was from another take.

Without knowing the source material, I think it could've been done much better, unless the source material had some problems on that area... but even so.. yeah, crappy editing that's what it is.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 23 2015 0:29:35
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

THis album was a work in progress for years I believe. I am quite certain there are tracks recorded both BEFORE and after his accident.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 23 2015 19:56:03
 
DavRom

 

Posts: 310
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From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

i guess he couldn't overdub the part after the injury

really annoying edit, but won't stop listening again and again. ha!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 24 2015 20:37:07
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

The problem is not the part, it's the fact that there are two different parts instead of one continuous take... and the edit is poorly done.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2015 15:47:00
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13665
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From: Washington DC

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

quote:

if you have Travesia (who doesn't?! puristas?) go to 1:39 of Ítaca and listen to the fade. it's so unmusical on such a beautiful piece that it always distracts me from the playing


I double checked it and don't get what's the big deal...he is bridging the free intro to the a compas section... too much down time there wouldn't be good....the guitar naturally fades like that anyway, COMPRESSION gives the illusion of sustain on a lot of recordings...including this one....which I find a problem when ever he holds a chord an ANY of the free style pieces on here. I understand need for compression of course, but also I can see why they felt a need to force fade that last chord out...otherwise, with the amount of compressor used on this thing that chord would have held out for freakin ever.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2015 20:55:51
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 615
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

Yeah, the super unnatural edit was one of the first things I noticed when I listened to Itaca. It made me sad because it makes it seem like minimal effort was put into this record, which Nunez alludes to in an interview I read about Travesia... basically that he made the record because he had to and that he really dislikes recording... his guitar is also really out of tune in the intro for Itaca. :( And, like Ricardo said, the album in general is super compressed; definitely more so than his past recordings.

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Daniel Volovets
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 25 2015 21:53:17
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

Even if the compression was already printed into the recording, the editing could've made the transition flawless. Even a simple well adjusted crossfade would be enough to avoid the "Ok, it fades out and ends here... Hey, here's the rest of the song!" feeling that it gives to the listener.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 1:15:52
 
Ricardo

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From: Washington DC

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

Even if the compression was already printed into the recording, the editing could've made the transition flawless. Even a simple well adjusted crossfade would be enough to avoid the "Ok, it fades out and ends here... Hey, here's the rest of the song!" feeling that it gives to the listener.


Transition is just fine and as intended...it's SUPPOSED to be two songs....don't get you guys.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 9:57:10
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 615
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From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

Even if the compression was already printed into the recording, the editing could've made the transition flawless. Even a simple well adjusted crossfade would be enough to avoid the "Ok, it fades out and ends here... Hey, here's the rest of the song!" feeling that it gives to the listener.


Transition is just fine and as intended...it's SUPPOSED to be two songs....don't get you guys.

It's one track, though... whether they were recorded separately or not, a simple cross-fade could have masked that with about 10 seconds worth of effort by whoever did the mixing/mastering.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 18:41:39
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13665
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From: Washington DC

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Bulerias2005

jeeeezus guys..... it was a quick fade on purpose...the compas part comes in to surprise you coming out of total silence. otherwise the compressor would have sustained that thing ridiculous too long...not unlike the rest of the intro.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 21:21:00
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

otherwise the compressor would have sustained that thing ridiculous too long


Sorry but that ain't a valid excuse. I don't believe that the compression is printed on so there's no reason for that messy editing. Even if it was so, still no reason for that display of poor editing... to me it sounds like someone said "uh, f%$k it.. it's good enough"

Even I do much better than that with freeware on demos.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 21:35:54
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13665
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From: Washington DC

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

quote:

otherwise the compressor would have sustained that thing ridiculous too long


Sorry but that ain't a valid excuse. I don't believe that the compression is printed on so there's no reason for that messy editing. Even if it was so, still no reason for that display of poor editing... to me it sounds like someone said "uh, f%$k it.. it's good enough"

Even I do much better than that with freeware on demos.


ok you win cross fade maestro.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 21:58:50
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3077
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RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ok you win cross fade maestro.


No reason for that attitude.

I was just letting you know in case someone does that kind of half assed job in your recordings and tell you "it's the way it should be".

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 26 2015 22:39:27
 
DavRom

 

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

it seems like lazy mixing to me. if it was a compressor thing, even if hardware compressor, they could have ridden the threshold manually. if the compression was printed a cleaner fade wouldn't be impossible

Ricardo, since you know Geraldo you can ask him and i bet he didn't like the results on this one
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 0:04:02
 
DavRom

 

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Bulerias2005

quote:

minimal effort was put into this record, which Nunez alludes to in an interview I read about Travesia...


where can i read this interview? thx!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 0:58:06
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 615
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to DavRom

quote:

ORIGINAL: DavRom

quote:

minimal effort was put into this record, which Nunez alludes to in an interview I read about Travesia...


where can i read this interview? thx!

http://www.deflamenco.com/revista/entrevistas/interview-with-gerardo-nunez-new-release-travesia-1.html

"I honestly hated the studios, that’s the honest-to-god truth. So if I took a long time to record, it’s because of that phobia. I never wear headphones big or small. To get into a recording booth with headphones on makes me physically ill, it affects me psychologically. I try to avoid it. "

"But you made your own record at home!

Yeah, but it was sort of an obligation."

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Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 1:11:18
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13665
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

quote:

ok you win cross fade maestro.


No reason for that attitude.

I was just letting you know in case someone does that kind of half assed job in your recordings and tell you "it's the way it should be".


Sure thing man...I'll get a tatoo "remember to ask the maestro this MORONIC question", so I won't forget to waste his time next time I see him. Can't wait for this IDIOT topic to vaporize into the archives of foroflamenco dumb question oblivion.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 18:02:30
 
DavRom

 

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Can't wait for this IDIOT topic to vaporize into the archives of foroflamenco dumb question oblivion.


wtf?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 19:13:00
 
DavRom

 

Posts: 310
Joined: Jul. 16 2015
From: De camino a Sevilla

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Bulerias2005

quote:

http://www.deflamenco.com/revista/entrevistas/interview-with-gerardo-nunez-new-release-travesia-1.html

"I honestly hated the studios, that’s the honest-to-god truth. So if I took a long time to record, it’s because of that phobia. I never wear headphones big or small. To get into a recording booth with headphones on makes me physically ill, it affects me psychologically. I try to avoid it. "

"But you made your own record at home!

Yeah, but it was sort of an obligation."


the CSO performed his music. how cool is that?

anyone know which piece? who conducted?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 19:17:02
 
Bulerias2005

 

Posts: 615
Joined: Jul. 10 2010
From: Minneapolis, MN

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

quote:

ok you win cross fade maestro.


No reason for that attitude.

I was just letting you know in case someone does that kind of half assed job in your recordings and tell you "it's the way it should be".


Sure thing man...I'll get a tatoo "remember to ask the maestro this MORONIC question", so I won't forget to waste his time next time I see him. Can't wait for this IDIOT topic to vaporize into the archives of foroflamenco dumb question oblivion.

Well that's unnecessarily heavy-handed...

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Daniel Volovets
Jazz, Classical, Flamenco, & Latin-American Guitar
http://www.danielvolovets.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 27 2015 20:56:20
 
Escribano

Posts: 6356
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Bulerias2005

quote:

Well that's unnecessarily heavy-handed...


I agree. If we can't discuss politely and with some respect, we should not discuss at all.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 28 2015 8:26:45
 
Dudnote

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RE: Mixing flamenco guitar (in reply to Bulerias2005

quote:


Well that's unnecessarily heavy-handed...

Yeps! But it was also hilarious and made my day!!!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 28 2015 12:52:16
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