Four ribbon microphones in direct comparison (classical guitar)

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rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

Four ribbon microphones in direct co...

Hello, I finally came to make a short comparison between four ribbon mics for classical guitar:

https://soundcloud.com/rojarosguitar/sets/ribbon-microphones-comparison-classical-guitar

I compare here four different ribbon microphones numbered one to four. The mics with the same number are the same throughout the test. They all went simultaneously through Antelope Zenstudio interface Micpres at the same amplification level and were normalized to -0.9dB in Protools 11. Recorded at 96kHz/24 bit and bounced to 44.1/16 with no processing whatsoever. So within the differences of the placements of the microphones these are takes of exactly the same playing and as such can be directly compared to a certain degree.
The mics were level with my eyes and a good stretched arm length distance from me.

The guitar used here is a Sebastian Stenzel 'Enhanced Wood' modell (cedar/Hondurian RW).

I will divulge later which one is which. Any comments very welcome.

The pieces are by:JS Bach, Esim Can and SL Weiss.
https://soundcloud.com/rojarosguitar/sets/ribbon-microphones-comparison-classical-guitar

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Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 16 2015 21:20:46

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to rojarosguitar)

One thing I have concluded from beginning to record with a pair of good small diaphragm omni condenser mics is that after decades of playing both classical and flamenco, I am not familiar with the sound of my guitars out in front of the instruments.

Your recordings confirm this. Ribbon mics aren't known for emphasizing the higher frequencies, yet the recordings have more high frequency content than I am used to hearing as a player.

I also conclude that after listening once to the three selections on the four mics, it would take a while longer to arrive at a stable preference--if ever.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2015 1:06:35

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

Thanks for your comment...

The last sentence is a bit criptical to me...

The four different takes of the same piece are exactly the same, because I recorded them simultaneously ... if that's what you meant.

_____________________________

Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2015 8:06:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to rojarosguitar)

Mic 3 getting cleanest guitar sound ... Others especially 4 picking up room noise IMO very subtle differences nothing jumps out night and day

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2015 19:15:48

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to rojarosguitar)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rojarosguitar

Thanks for your comment...

The last sentence is a bit criptical to me...

The four different takes of the same piece are exactly the same, because I recorded them simultaneously ... if that's what you meant.

I could see what I assumed was the setup in the photo, showing all four mics in nearly the same position.

What I meant was I could hear some differences, but I was not sure which I preferred without further listening.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2015 19:27:36

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to Ricardo)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Mic 3 getting cleanest guitar sound ... Others especially 4 picking up room noise IMO very subtle differences nothing jumps out night and day

The ribbon mics I have read the specs on mostly have a "figure-8" pattern, being as sensitive at the "back" as they are at the "front." So they inherently pick up room sound. The differences in room sound presumably depend upon the frequency response, and how it changes as you go off axis.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 28 2015 19:30:56

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

So for the tech-heads here:

1. Samar VL37 (800 US$)
2. sE X1R (120 US$)
3. Royer SF-12 uppper Part 2.800 US$
4. Cscade X-15 (stock transformer) upper Part. (350 US$)

prices only appr.

Samar has the most extended frequency pickup, Royer SF-12 is not exactly figure 8 (though they claim it, but recording test show clear differences between back and front side) and that's maybe why it picks up less room.

_____________________________

Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 29 2015 9:11:20

Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to rojarosguitar)

I listened some more with Sennheiser HD600 headphones straight off the sound card of my Mac Mini, also via Airplay to Linn Katan speakers plus 10.25" Linn woofer, Linn electronics, in a fair sized room that's just a little too lively for hi-fi.

Unfortunately I like the most expensive mic the best.

Guitar Salon International has a video of Roland Dyens playing a 1956 Bouchet. They say it was recorded with AEA mics. In the video you can see which models. It sounds good to me. When I looked up the specs on the AEA's they have the frequency response of the old time ribbon mics, big rolloff above the high midrange. GSI didn't say what the rest of the recording chain was, nor whether they applied any equalization.

RNJ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Jul. 31 2015 19:54:45

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)

I'm pretty sure GSI does process their recordings. Ribbons take EQ generally very well...

So if you say 'most expensive' you mean Royer, I understand? I like Royer too, but I don't like the coincident aspect of that too much. But that is a luxury problem

Thanks for your comments.

_____________________________

Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 11 2015 9:39:38

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Aug. 17 2015 8:22:34

rojarosguitar

Posts: 243
Joined: Dec. 8 2010

RE: Four ribbon microphones in direc... (in reply to rojarosguitar)

BTW the recording in http://www.foroflamenco.com/tm.asp?m=281574&p=1&tmode=1&smode=1 is done with the Samar ribbon mics

_____________________________

Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Sep. 10 2015 17:31:46