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Loriente Carmen?
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ngiorgio
Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA
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 RE: Loriente Carmen? (in reply to lavecchia)
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The Carmens can be very good intermediate guitars. There are a couple of very important things to be aware of. The Carmens went through a pretty substantial redesign a few years back. Even though they are marketed by the Cordoba Group, these guitars appear to be built by a smaller factory or workshop. They could be built by the Antonio Picado workshop.
They way to tell if they are the new design is the color of the label. The early ones had a yellow label. The newer versions have a blue label.
As mentioned by Bernd, two respected luthiers were very involved with the improvements to the later models and also a negra version was created. Interesting thing regarding the negras is that it has the same shallow body depth as the blanca. To me, these newer versions are way more flamenco than the early one. They are much lighter in weight. The blanca is also a bit lighter than the negra. The whole build is much lighter with thinner tops, back and sides and it appears to be braced lighter as well. They have two way adjustable truss rods which I think is big plus. They also have a true low profile bridge and their neck angle allows for a very comfortable low action. Easy on the right hand. Not too stiff, medium to light pulsation. I find the necks to be very comfortable, not like the heavy thick necks of the made in Spain Cordobas (most likely coming out of the Alhambra factory) Also, and this is a big reason why they can be very responsive, as a decent flamenco should be, the polyurethane finish is very, very thinly applied.
I currently have one blanca and 2 negras. The blanca is way to bright for my style of playing and the 2 negras are very similar to each other. (I am more of a negra guy anyway) My blanca is currently for sale and very soon, I need to part with one of the negras. I have had these guitars between 6 to 9 months and have had enough time to experience all of their characteristics.
Now for the other side of the coin. Their street price new, is around $2000. I didn't pay anywhere near that for any of the 3 that I have. Not that they are not worth 2 grand, I'm sure some of them may be, but at that price point there are quite a few other brands to pick from. New or used is another variable. There's a nice Castillo negra on Ebay for $2000. 2 grand for a known luthier made instrument, is for me, a pretty nice choice. There's also a Camps primera blanca on Ebay for $1700. I could go on but I am sure you get my drift. In my humble opinion, a blue label Carmen can be a pretty nice guitar at a price of 1200 dollars. All solid, made in Spain, lightly built and very flamenco. Just do your homework and be aware of the options.
Another thing which I like very much about these Carmens that I have, is that they seem to resemble instruments of the Granada school than that of the Madrid style of construction, sound and feel. Slightly smaller bodies, light in weight, very responsive and easy to play.
Anyway to sum this all up, IMHO if someone is able to spend $2000 on a guitar, look for a used luthier made instrument. If your budget is a$1000. or so, a nice used Carmen can be a good choice.
Good luck in your search.
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Date Apr. 11 2015 20:09:50
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ngiorgio
Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA
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RE: Loriente Carmen? (in reply to lavecchia)
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Lavecchia, I completely understand your situation. I used to live in the NYC area and I could go to Luthier Music and Tony always had a fabulous selection of flamencos from starter guitars up to concert instruments. Did buy one terrific negra from there 10 or so years ago. Now I am in Florida and there is not much to choose from. A few luthiers in the area but they do not specialize in flamencos.
At $1500. your in a sort of middle ground position. Can't get into a new luthier made instrument, but sometimes a used luthier made guitar may pop up. especially on Ebay. Even Craigs list.
I have owned a few blancas, two from Francisco Navarro and one Sanchis Lopez, just to mention a few .The Sanchis Lopez was used but the Navarros were new and for various reasons I eventually parted company with them. You might want to check out both of those makers. I have no personal experience with Camps guitars but there are good reviews on that brand. There was one on Ebay recently, I think was at $1600. or best offer. It was a primera and may have been sold. I have bought and sold quite a number of guitars on Ebay and if you buy it right you can keep it and always re-sell and get your money back. Even when trying out a guitar in a store or wherever, after you spend some time with them at home in your environment, I'm referring to weeks and sometimes months, they may change for the better, or they might just not work for you and the search continues. You should do the research and I'm sure other members may have some more suggestions for you. The used market can be s good source of a nice blanca in your price range.
Another thing that you must take into consideration is set-up. I have bought some nice used guitars that were just not set up right. After some adjustments to both nut and saddle and sometimes a little fret work they really got into the sweet spot for me.
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Date Apr. 15 2015 15:02:28
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3418
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Loriente Carmen? (in reply to lavecchia)
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I'm with Lenador. Better to put up another $1,000 and go for a $2,500 guitar.
I recommend you contact Zavaleta's Guitars, located in Tucson, Arizona. The website is www.zavaletas-guitarras.com. The gentleman's name is James Greenberg, and he imports mid- to high-end flamenco and classical guitars from Spain. Check out the website and look carefully at the Manuel Adalid Viviana flamencos for US$2,500. Several years ago I visited Zavaleta's, had dinner with James Greenberg, and looked over his guitars. I bought a Manuel Adalid flamenca blanca. It is a first-rate instrument with a sound that is muy flamenco! Mr. Greenberg is a pleasure to do business with, and he, of course, ships guitars to his customers. Highly recommended!
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
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Date Apr. 15 2015 21:40:46
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ngiorgio
Posts: 168
Joined: Nov. 1 2005
From: Florida, USA
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RE: Loriente Carmen? (in reply to lavecchia)
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As I recall, the first Loriente labels had the name Antonio Loriente with a "stamped" signature. Tim received a lot of flack for that on his (G.S.I forum) and I think a second yellow label was used without a signature and maybe it was just Loriente. The blue labels only have Loriente and the model on them. The new models also have a small label inside on the foot of the neck, which say Cordoba guitars and a serial number. The numbers, I believe, show year of production model and sequence number. One of the top models, classical, in the Loriente line was made in California, maybe by Kenny Hill's crew. The Cordoba Master series, which includes a "Reyes" blanca, is also made in CA.
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Date Apr. 19 2015 15:36:30
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