Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
My journey into the blues #10
It's been a while and lots of mistakes, but it's a jam. I have been fiddling with some speedier licks. Working the top strings and hoping to join them up with the lower ones, one day. Anyway, give me another year :-)
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
Nice! You have improved! Good vibrato and you also look like a blues player, haha.
I have played blues for 10 years and only recently I realized how most blues artists use notes from minor bepop scale, it's basically major pentatonic and minor pentatonic together. (I used the notes also before but didn't notice the pattern here between major pentatonic and minor together, can be also thought of A dorian with C#) However these notes are in almost every blues song and I wonder how I didn't realize it earlier. If it's minor blues like thrill is gone the major notes are mostly avoided. These additional notes give lots of flavour and occasionally even the major pentatonic approach can be used(where you follow the major pentatonic instead of using it's notes as passing notes) which can be heard in BB kings songs often. Just in case you didn't know. I've never utilized the arpeggio approach for blues since it makes it boring and after playing it for so long it goes by feel.
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Sr. Martins)
lydian dominant works in an exotic way too...the b7 and #4 gives you the important "blues" notes with some interesting other colors if used tastefully....one would need to change scales on each chord of the progression though.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
lydian dominant works in an exotic way too...the b7 and #4 gives you the important "blues" notes with some interesting other colors if used tastefully....one would need to change scales on each chord of the progression though.
Right but for the example I wanted to give that wouldn't work (too many notes). The b5 is kind of implied and what I really wanted to point out is that by changing your view about little things you're used to playing, new possibilities arise.
Recently I told a guy who was struggling with the "which mode to play over each chord and how" kind of thing... I just told him something like "Why don't you focus on the arpeggio of the chord up to the 7th as your core/stable points and just think of the other notes as little bridges that you may or may not want to step on?"
This alone was enough to bring light and peace to his mind, suddenly everything became clear to him and some other concepts which he wasn't grasping suddenly made sense too.
The mindset and the way you see and understand things (all things, life in general) is, in my opinion, what determines what you're going to be able to come up with.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
really loved that own style and what a tone what amp u using simon ?
do u dig albert kind to spice up ur playing people have suggested scales id say get into too albert king the way he may just play small box patter yet use quarter /eight or smear bends really milk all say the 3-5 notes
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
sorry albert king -- also catch bends are really cool i.e jimi henrix may bend say the 15the fret on b string but catch /grab the 3rd string , so for u simon play the speedy licks but with the interjection of a few slow phrases maybe be cool if u feel em. - another way instead of thinking scales
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
yes right ya are kid - english isnt my first language apologies concept is the word im after -- the point was scale fragments seem usable ny the more intuitive players , i.e albert king / slash/django - in my mind at this time anyway .
iim sure most of us have got bogged down in learn millions of scales -- then grandma says play something and what we do play a locrian scale -
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to minorthang)
quote:
ORIGINAL: minorthang
yes right ya are kid - english isnt my first language apologies concept is the word im after -- the point was scale fragments seem usable ny the more intuitive players , i.e albert king / slash/django - in my mind at this time anyway .
iim sure most of us have got bogged down in learn millions of scales -- then grandma says play something and what we do play a locrian scale -
I think blues is all about intuition and feel for the music since there is only three chords(in general) and the real blues players know how to work with the chords without thinking. The notes that are in the chords come out at the right time in the lead playing by themselves. Thinking about arpeggios when playing the blues makes it in my experience way harder and more limited in how interesting the playing sounds.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to tele)
quote:
I think blues is all about intuition and feel for the music since there is only three chords(in general) and the real blues players know how to work with the chords without thinking. The notes that are in the chords come out at the right time in the lead playing by themselves. Thinking about arpeggios when playing the blues makes it in my experience way harder and more limited in how interesting the playing sounds.
With all due respect, that's some huge BS you laid there.
Would you float out into space if you thought that "human magnetism" was the thing that was holding you on to earth instead of gravity? Would that make any difference?
Thinking about theory instead of playing what you know will have the same effect as rambling and noodling through the fretboard until you find the "right spots"...
... and when you do, those spots will still be good ol fashioned notes.
Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to minorthang)
quote:
really loved that own style and what a tone what amp u using simon ?
Thanks, I like to think the tone is something I have worked on with rather expensive Bare Knuckle pups, a complete rewire, orange drop caps, steel vibrato end block, vintage Fender vibrato springs (five of them I think), English Rotosound .10 strings and a bone nut. The amp is a battery driven Roland Cube with a little chorus, reverb and a dose of gain.
quote:
great playing are u singing sky is crying also
Once I am happy enough to play without thinking too much, I will attempt to learn to sing - but I am rubbish at the moment.
This was specifically to try some quicker licks - I'll drop in some slower stuff in between in time. The slow ones are the hardest
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Sr. Martins)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
quote:
I think blues is all about intuition and feel for the music since there is only three chords(in general) and the real blues players know how to work with the chords without thinking. The notes that are in the chords come out at the right time in the lead playing by themselves. Thinking about arpeggios when playing the blues makes it in my experience way harder and more limited in how interesting the playing sounds.
With all due respect, that's some huge BS you laid there.
Would you float out into space if you thought that "human magnetism" was the thing that was holding you on to earth instead of gravity? Would that make any difference?
Thinking about theory instead of playing what you know will have the same effect as rambling and noodling through the fretboard until you find the "right spots"...
... and when you do, those spots will still be good ol fashioned notes.
It seems like you don't play the blues and take completely theoretic approach to improvisation. I have been playing blues for over 10 years and consider myself a blues guitarist much more than flamenco and I know the right notes out of the scales come out by themselves without thinking about arpeggios or anything else besides the scales (for example the minor bepop I mentioned before) every time the chord changes. I am not saying one shouldn't know any theory. It's difficult to play by feel with scales at first but with time it becomes easier. Arpeggios can be as guide but concentrating and playing mostly the notes within the chords makes blues sound dull. Just listen to the pros. If you think it's difficult to land on the right notes at the right time then the problem is with lack of feel for the guitar. And Consider it this way, for example major scale has 7 notes while the major 7th has 4 notes, so what's the problem? We can even go further and utilize several notes between the notes of the major scale as passing notes. If one has to concentrate constantly on the notes of the chords in the melody and strain to emphasize them constantly(instead of naturally bringing them out at the right time by feel) the blues suffers in my opinion and experience, it works for jazz but that's another story.
I am not going to participate in argument with you any more than this, every one has their own way of playing the guitar and improvising, and I know what works for me after trying every method of approaching the blues improvisation.
Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to ToddK)
quote:
Its about phrasing, tone, and style. You're doing great Simon!
That's all I needed to hear Todd - that I am getting somewhere and don't suck too bad - it's all too easy to give up completely. Thanks to everyone who takes an interest in supporting me with solid advice and encouragement.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to tele)
@tele
You are the one who keeps talking about theoretical thinking in improvisation. I only said that in the end you'll be playing notes no matter what voodoo you believe in as being your source of inspiration.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Sr. Martins)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
@tele
You are the one who keeps talking about theoretical thinking in improvisation. I only said that in the end you'll be playing notes no matter what voodoo you believe in as being your source of inspiration.
You said it's huge BS but I think the same about your posts since you don't play the blues
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to tele)
quote:
You said it's huge BS but I think the same about your posts
But my BS was respectful...
You have to agree that you'll play notes no matter if you know what they are or not. The theory used in this topic was equivalent to saying "use the box and an extra funny note". No one ever says for people to think about theory while playing, that just doesn't make sense although it seems that many people think that any theory talk is an algorithm to make music.
quote:
you don't play the blues
Whichever color of music you want to play, there will be frequencies which we call musical notes. They are easier to transfer from instrument to instrument through that thing (musical notes) than through shapes and boxes.
How do you apply those boxy shapes to a piano or a violin? Are you making music or just squeezing steel against the frets?
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to tele)
A few weeks ago I was asked if I ONLY composed music with theory.
The question is based on multi-level misconceptions, which makes it almost impossible to make the person "see what you see" and understand how wrong they are.
You can build algorithms all you want and serial/matrix stuff but for "regular music playing/making", theory as people envision it... just doesn't exist, period.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
theoretic approach to improvisation
some players like the theoretical approach some are caught in between some dont care - each to there own.
i decteintly remeber say long time ago being lost for ideas of 12 blues than disovering larry carlton /robben ford /don mock style of playing that opened the door up with arpeggio substitutions and the like using modal improvisation for example playing a em7b5 over a c7 vamp- cool sound - then after that i haeard joe pass and well got in to sax lines , but that is a whole diff ball game .
get into the singing earlier than later simon doesnt matter if it aint perfect enjoy the ride , ah yes the roland cube they are great amps ive got a fender telecsster here looks like something page used on dazed and confused so im loving it (friend gave to me ) what a friend,if i can record ill up load some ideas for u simon
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to minorthang)
@minorthang
To me it's much easier to get the point across in an unmistakable way by saying "try mixing the major 6th in there" to express an idea for other people to experiment with than saying "play the regular cotton fields vibe and add some dark bible ritual invocation to it".
Regardless of what you are feeling when playing, the musical outcome will always be notes.
Music theory to train the ear, explore new ideas and analyze music to grab new ideas from there, count me in.
Thinking about music theory to improvise, no way. The thinking is done "offline" when you're mastering your craft, when improvising you just let the ideas flow through that conscious training that you did earlier.
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
Simon--
I should have replied sooner, but I waited, then had to wade through a certain amount of posturing toward the end of the thread.
From the home of Stevie Ray and Jimmie Vaughn, Johnny and Edgar Winter and the stomping grounds of Albert King and Omar and the Howlers, I've got to say, you're starting to really sound like the blues.
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Escribano
quote:
really loved that own style and what a tone what amp u using simon ?
Thanks, I like to think the tone is something I have worked on with rather expensive Bare Knuckle pups, a complete rewire, orange drop caps, steel vibrato end block, vintage Fender vibrato springs (five of them I think), English Rotosound .10 strings and a bone nut. The amp is a battery driven Roland Cube with a little chorus, reverb and a dose of gain.
Is that another way to say you sold your soul to the devil? What ever you did you got it sounding great man!
quote:
quote:
great playing are u singing sky is crying also
Once I am happy enough to play without thinking too much, I will attempt to learn to sing - but I am rubbish at the moment.
If you've got a half decent shower unit just go for it, howl like a wolf!!!
quote:
The slow ones are the hardest
A dancer once said that to me about slow solea, it's all in the expression, feeling and s. p. a. c. e
RE: My journey into the blues #10 (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
Do you mean blues artists?
Well,
Best cantaor could be Juan Villar or Ranca Best tocaor could be Periquín or Rafael Rodriguez El Cabeza Best guitarist could be Peter Green or Gary Moore
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread