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experts on english please !!!   You are logged in as Guest
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koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

experts on english please !!! 

Hi, long time no see, I know :-)

But I have a quick question.
Friend of me is writing an english song text. We had this little discussions about how to say certain things:
Is the following correct english ?:

-she's like a skipping bird.
-mother was tenderly living.
-wherever you go, you will always show. ( about a dead person, I beg you )
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 15:33:16
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Hey there and welcome back.

I'd love to help but I need the meter and tempo and style.

Your English is excellent so if you like it and the imagery is what you want and it fits the tune then it is probably good.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 15:38:46
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to guitarbuddha

Hi man, i mean pure grammatically...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 15:50:39
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

My grammer isn't the best and it might not be to your taste.

Like a bird she skipped
as tender as she lived
you may go where you will, she will guide you still

But that might not be what you mean.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 15:57:33
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

nice, but i mean it much more simplistic. What I mean is, can you say these things in english. I know "tenderly loving" but "tenderly living" is that genuine english ?

And, can a bird skip ?

You know, more the choice of words.

"forever you'll show". can you say that about a dead mother. Isn't that more something for jesus or god....or buddha of course haha.

Anyway, thanks for helping man !
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 16:28:38
 
Morante

 

Posts: 1886
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

None of these phrases have meaning in English. They seem to be a literal translation from the original. They need to be translated by a native English speaker, who understands the original language.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 16:41:07
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Thanks Morante, that's what I wanted to hear !
Looked to me like phony english too...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 17:05:55
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

I am certain you have all the skills you need.

As Morante said you need to be conversant in both languages and that takes time.

I am barely proficient in one.

I checked with the Lyrics of Jimmy Hendrix Little Wing

'Well she's walking through the clouds
With a circus mind
That's running wild
Butterflies and zebras and moonbeams
And fairly tales,'


They are very strange English but the work with the song.

I would need to know the song, I always do need to know it.

But you know it and the results will be as good as the time you put in.

Sure I fixed some of the grammar and tenses and made a guess at who the narrator was supposed be. Also I had to guess who the audience might be and which parts referred to the deceased and which to the audience.

But I left alone questionable metaphors and imagery because they are often useful for style and because they may be personal to the writer.

Take this song title.

'I Wish I Knew How It Feels to be Free'

It is rerrible English but sings really well. It isn't apparent just how well it sings till you know the tune.

I don't think you should be too fussy about whether the grammar is perfect if result is a song you like then that is enough. With a bit of luck you will still like it in a few years time.

If your friend can't take your advice then maybe you should work on different things and separately for the sake of friendship.

Anyway sorry for the long wordy post, I know how it annoys you when I go on.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 17:07:57
 
AljibeDeMadera

 

Posts: 11
Joined: Jan. 31 2015
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Hey Koella—the first two phrases are perfectly fine. I'm not familiar with the phrase "you will always show." What I mean is, it does not invoke death in the English speaker's mind. Gramatically it is correct, but without more context, that phrase makes the English speaker ask the question, "show what?" or, "show how?"

If we were speaking, we would normally say "living tenderly," but I quite enjoy the inversion, and think you should keep it the way it is. And of course, a bird can skip—that doesn't sound weird at all.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 17:20:44
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

ok ok, here's the complete text.
I think it's typical dutch-english. ideas translated littilarly from dutch into english.

please comment on phony expression :

Like a Bird


There you are, and there you were
Flying by, like a bird
Smiling and humming
Skipping and singing
Like a bird

Wish I could, be good as you
Always at hand, following your heart
Taking and giving
Tenderly living
Like a bird, you always were

For what it's worth, I'll always be with you
and hope that someday,
I'll be as brave and true, as you, like you


Where ever you are. It won't be to far
You will carry on. Your heart was so strong

Where ever you go. You'll be glad to know
Forever you'll show, in our mind and our soul

You will carry on


There you are, there you were
Flying by, like a bird
Smiling and humming

Like a bird
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 17:37:45
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Wher[e]ever you are. It won't be to[o] far
You will carry on. Your heart was so strong
Wher[e]ever you go. You'll be glad to know
Forever you'll show, in our mind and our soul

I took the liberty to point out a couple of typos above.

As a general commentary, I agree with GuitarBuddha that there is a degree of license a lyricist can take, in contempt of any and all grammatical rules. However, and of course, such freedom is best exercised as an informed choice, rather than by either chance or mistake.

They are lovely lyrics, but now you must let us hear how they sound with music to match !!

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 17:48:15
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Giacomo James !!!
Well, howdy Sir ..
Gee, how I miss this site...

Back to business.

Yes I saw all those mistakes. not typos but just plain bad knowledge of your beautiful language...
Furthermore, I agree with you totally...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 18:02:16
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

@Buddha: haha, doesn't annoy me. I forgot about that chapter a long time ago.
Hmmmm ... btw ....strange avatar for someone who stopped drinking a long time ago
You see Buddha ... even trolls can change.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 18:14:07
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Too bad I lost my interest in flamenco ... I always had a good time here ....
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 26 2015 18:17:03
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

quote:

Giacomo James !!!
Well, howdy Sir ..
Gee, how I miss this site...


Ditto, hombre. 'nothing like good ol' ForoFlamenco!

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 2:43:52
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

They are lovely lyrics, but now you must let us hear how they sound with music to match !!



well the music without voice you can hear here:
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 14:58:09
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

quote:

well the music without voice you can hear here:


I find it so enjoyable, Koella. There is the distant influence of Vicente Amigo in some of the more pained phrases. It strikes me as a beautiful slow "baile" but flavorfully celtic, as if aged in whiskey barrels.

I love how confidently your theme returns at 2:08. I replayed it back a few times. It is so pretty, that I fear it would be easier to ruin it than to embellish it by adding a voice.

A violin, on the other hand...

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 15:55:56
 
macskye

 

Posts: 18
Joined: Nov. 5 2014
From: Scotland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

"-she's like a skipping bird.
-mother was tenderly living.
-wherever you go, you will always show. ( about a dead person, I beg you )"

Put simply I would change these as follows:

-She's skipping like a bird (typical simile)
-Mother was living tenderly (word order corrected to past continuous)
- #3 is absolutely fine.


I'm currently studying grammar to become an english language teacher so couldn't help but give my opinion.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 16:37:55
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2970
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Nice playing, I think I am beginning to appreciate you technique more . And of course I enjoyed the humour in the video immensely.

While, like Mitch, I am hearing the violins (do they ever stop ?). I think that a voice might just fit. Not singing though. Here are the words by Norman McKaig who is actually an expert in English, as I am not.

Everywhere she dies. Everywhere I go she dies.
No sunrise, no city square, no lurking beautiful mountain
but has her death in it.
The silence of her dying sounds through
the carousel of language. It’s a web
on which laughter stitches itself. How can my hand
clasp another’s when between them
is that thick death, that intolerable distance?

She grieves for my grief. Dying, she tells me
that bird dives from the sun, that fish
leaps into it. No crocus is carved more gently
than the way her dying
shapes my mind. – But I hear, too,
the other words,
black words that make the sound
of soundlessness, that name the nowhere
she is continuously going into.

Ever since she died
she can’t stop dying. She makes me
her elegy. I am a walking masterpiece,
a true fiction
of the ugliness of death.
I am her sad music.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 16:45:32
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

@GJ : So nice of you to describe it that way, thank you.
Yes good old Gerundino, I wonder if it likes the celtic flavors.


And thnx macskye and buddha.
and...i'm not going to read all that buddha haha.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 17:05:48
 
Ricardo

Posts: 13285
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

quote:

forever you'll show, in our mind and soul

how about:
you will never be apart, from our mind, soul and heart. (technically it should be "my" instead of our, or else you add s' to each word which is not good for singing).

earlier: be as good as you...

instead of skipping.."fluttering"

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 27 2015 19:36:49
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Thank you so much Ricardo.
So nice to see you here again
I hope you'r still doing well with your music and " what's this thing called working ?"
I'll never forget that haha.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2015 10:35:57
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Koella, that's a wonderful composition. It reminds me a lot of a track from Show Of Hand's superb instrumental album "The Path" which uses some similar harmonic movements. Here is a different track from the same album with a very different feel. Hope you like it.

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2015 16:59:48
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

thanks buddy.
Where are the from, Show Of Hands ?
And what's the name of the similar track you mentioned ?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2015 17:44:52
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Geez guts, those compliments make me think. All this music here on my harddisk. When I'm gone they will throw it away and that's it, gone forever. Wish I had a little more ambition and a selling-door-to-door mentality..
Well, I guess it just doesn't fit me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2015 18:53:30
 
gerundino63

Posts: 1672
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Nice piece of music Huub!
Good to see everyting is ok with you

_____________________________

  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 28 2015 21:23:37
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Show of Hands are a very talented folk due from Chudleigh in Devon (an old stomping ground of mine). They are made up of singer song writer Steve Knightly and fiddle virtuoso Phil Beer. I'm stuggling to find that song title right now because my cat is determined14 89]` to walk on the keyboard. "The Path" refers to the coastal foot path of South West England. All the song titles are place names. It's a very beautiful, relaxed and evocative album featuring more than one seagull.

Here's their website
http://www.showofhands.co.uk/2003/05/19/the-path/

Among their other albums worth checking out are Dark Fields (includes a great duet with an angel from Yorkshire called Kate Rushby), Beat About The Bush and Cold Frontiers.

Some of Phil Beer's trademark tracks to show off his highly honed fiddling skills include The Galway Farmer and The Blind Fiddler - both off some of their older albums. Here's a live version...


Another classic of theirs, Cousin Jack, tells the story of Cornish tin miners and their emigration to the new world when the tin industry collapsed.


I hope you enjoy!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2015 3:15:14
 
koella

Posts: 2194
Joined: Sep. 10 2005
From: holland

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to koella

Hi Peter.
kom een keer langs jongen, das lang geleden. ( transalation : you should visit me some time )
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2015 8:04:35
 
Escribano

Posts: 6311
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to Dudnote

quote:

Another classic of theirs, Cousin Jack, tells the story of Cornish tin miners and their emigration to the new world when the tin industry collapsed.

Many went to mine silver in Mexico and that is why you can find pasties there - like I did :-)

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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2015 9:04:48
 
Dudnote

Posts: 1800
Joined: Nov. 13 2007
 

RE: experts on english please !!! (in reply to Escribano

quote:

ORIGINAL: Escribano

quote:

Another classic of theirs, Cousin Jack, tells the story of Cornish tin miners and their emigration to the new world when the tin industry collapsed.

Many went to mine silver in Mexico and that is why you can find pasties there - like I did :-)

Pasties in Mexico - OLEEEE!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 29 2015 10:28:34
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