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RE: Sabicas 1939   You are logged in as Guest
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BarkellWH

Posts: 3456
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

yes. Manitas de Plata. Also amazingly "unique".


C'mon, Ricardo. Carlos was a much better flamenco guitarist than Manitas. Actually, I don't begrudge Manitas, but in my opinion he was nowhere near the guitarist that Carlos was, in spite of Carlos's defects, which were largely self-imposed.

Bill

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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2015 14:05:02
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3456
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to estebanana

quote:

Clearly however Carlos was far inferior to Sabicas because Carlos was never booked into the Jernigan Suite when he toured. This caused Carlos to lose sleep, be stressed out and to get sloppy when on stage because his American wife badgered him about the accommodations.... He also wanted to get rooted deep into the American counter culture and work with the Grateful Dead, which is also why he cultivated his sense of showmanship.


This adds an interesting psychological twist to Carlos's style of playing. Having been denied access to the Jernigan Suite, where only the Heaven-Anointed are permitted entry, Carlos aspires to be a Dead Head. Failing at that as well, Carlos wants to play nothing but ligado and then smash his guitar on stage after each performance.

Manitas, on the other hand, did not have to worry about either pleasing or offending an American wife. He had Brigitte Bardot as his primary audience, and she didn't give a damn whether he played in compas or not.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2015 14:23:40
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

Wow Stephen! Thanks for that interesting information, I never knew that. The origins of his amazing slurs becomes much clearer now.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2015 15:02:46
 
SephardRick

Posts: 358
Joined: Apr. 11 2014
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

The saddest man in the world has an American wife, a Chinese salary a Japanese home and English food


Ha!

Thanks for the touch of humor, Stephen.

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Rick
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2015 16:07:38
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3416
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

Yeah. The manager phoned me up and asked if Carlos could stay at my place at the Emperador. I said he could if he would promise never to play ligado for more than 20 seconds at a time, and stop holding up his right hand like a doofus.

I never heard back from the manager. I guess his wife put her foot down on style changes.

And the reason he never jammed with Pigpen on drums is because Pig played organ and harmonica, and would have drowned out Carlos on either one.

I got this from my biggest Deadhead buddy, who knew this because he was clairvoyant--at least while he was on acid.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2015 20:07:08
 
estebanana

Posts: 9315
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

And the reason he never jammed with Pigpen on drums is because Pig played organ and harmonica, and would have drowned out Carlos on either one.


Two things are to be sure about my writing. One I don't submit my words to the New Yorker's fact checking dept. and I have never followed the Dead, because they all looked dead.

I saw the Dead once at the US Festival in CA in about 1982. A free concert put on by Apple computers. Steve Wozniak walked out on stage and said we've made so much money we want to throw a party, the line up of performers was amazing. Well top pop acts of the way. Headlined by the Police.

Sadly Sabicas was not called, but rumor has it contractual disputes over lodging were a determining factor. And a breech of the Green M&M clause as well.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 19 2015 23:06:37
 
estebanana

Posts: 9315
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

Grisha are you still lurking? I have a serious question for you and Ricardo about Sabicas' right hand.

How is his apoyando ( free ) stroke carried out? Angle into the string and which joints in play? If you have time can you break apart his right hand a bit? It's stunning how he uses it.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2015 13:55:57
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

Stephen, which technique are you referring to? Apoyando or tirando?
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2015 18:36:30
 
estebanana

Posts: 9315
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

Well both really, his hand movement is so minimal it's hard to see on films what he was doing. The technique is so clean and precise it never fails to make me shake my head. Sabicas' music is not my top, but I would never discount him as one of the best of the best. I like some of his compositions better than Nino Ricardo's, but there something about Ricardos funkiness I like.

But Sabicas' right hand seems to be the about as good as it gets.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2015 23:02:20
 
Grisha

 

Posts: 1263
Joined: Mar. 17 2005
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

I agree. In short, he plays from the large knuckle, but also utilizes the other two. He keeps his fingers pretty relaxed while he channels the energy through them. To me, his right hand is very similar to that of Javier Conde.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 20 2015 23:30:16
 
Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3416
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to estebanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: estebanana

Well both really, his hand movement is so minimal it's hard to see on films what he was doing. The technique is so clean and precise it never fails to make me shake my head. Sabicas' music is not my top, but I would never discount him as one of the best of the best. I like some of his compositions better than Nino Ricardo's, but there something about Ricardos funkiness I like.

But Sabicas' right hand seems to be the about as good as it gets.


Someone wrote that Ramon Montoya would have been a great musician in whatever genre he happened to work, but Niño Ricardo had to be a flamenco guitarist. You could just about substitute Sabicas for Montoya, in my opinion.

But Niño Ricard was flamenco through and through. And in his earlier days he was a technical monster as well, though not quite on the order of Sabicas.

Having seen Sabicas up close and in person a fair amount, I was always amazed by the fluency and apparent effortlessness of his technique. He was never in a hurry, no matter how fast he might have been blasting away. And he was never pushing hard, no matter how much he was rattling the chandeliers. He got his volume by efficiency, not force.

Or so it seemed. He probably could have cracked walnuts between the thumb and forefinger of either hand. His right hand strokes could have been like Bruce Lee´s one-inch punches.

He could play from the New York club Zambra's 2 AM closing time until sunrise without ever setting the guitar down, fueled only by a couple shots of Spanish brandy per hour.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2015 4:51:37
 
estebanana

Posts: 9315
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Someone wrote that Ramon Montoya would have been a great musician in whatever genre he happened to work, but Niño Ricardo had to be a flamenco guitarist. You could just about substitute Sabicas for Montoya, in my opinion.

But Niño Ricard was flamenco through and through. And in his earlier days he was a technical monster as well, though not quite on the order of Sabicas.

Having seen Sabicas up close and in person a fair amount, I was always amazed by the fluency and apparent effortlessness of his technique. He was never in a hurry, no matter how fast he might have been blasting away. And he was never pushing hard, no matter how much he was rattling the chandeliers. He got his volume by efficiency, not force.

Or so it seemed. He probably could have cracked walnuts between the thumb and forefinger of either hand. His right hand strokes could have been like Bruce Lee´s one-inch punches.

He could play from the New York club Zambra's 2 AM closing time until sunrise without ever setting the guitar down, fueled only by a couple shots of Spanish brandy per hour.

RNJ


Thanks Richard and Grisha. Wish I had seen him.

yeah I get the idea he never looks stressed when he played. That part of it is really important, the sometimes cheese showmanship part does not bother me either. I figure he earned it.



All that and he also looked like Roy Orbison with the sun glasses and wig hat.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2015 10:34:55
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1798
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Sabicas 1939 (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

Someone wrote that Ramon Montoya would have been a great musician in whatever genre he happened to work, but Niño Ricardo had to be a flamenco guitarist.


That was Paco Peña. Paco also said that if you had suggested to Ricardo that he could have been a pianist instead, he would probably have knifed you

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Mar. 21 2015 18:27:14
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