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Conde vs Conde   You are logged in as Guest
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tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

Conde vs Conde 

I came across this on Mariano Jnr's website

http://www.marianoconde.com/blog/statement-to-el-mundo-newspaper

STATEMENT TO “EL MUNDO” NEWSPAPER

In reply to the article Magia en una guitarra (Magic in a guitar) in your supplement Fuera de serie from Sunday 25th January 2015, I outline below in detail my disagreement on numerous points and their respective clarifications, seeing that it is the brother of the interviewee and a person directly mentioned by him writing to you.

This is the second time that I am writing to you. Both times have been because of the same reason: my brother, Felipe Conde. The last time I contacted you was due to the guitar being chosen as the greatest Spanish invention. I wrote to you in verse with the poem Los cuatro condes (The Four Counts), which I have attached to this letter as a reminder. You apologised to me by telephone and arranged to pass by my workshop at 1, Amnistía Street in Madrid, something that you failed to do. This time I am writing to you in precise prose as I appreciate that poetry is more difficult to understand.

Incorrect statements.

Firstly:

Felipe Conde states: “After the death of their father in 1989, the brothers Felipe and Mariano Conde took charge of the business.”

Before our father died, I was already in charge of the company. On 9th January 1985, there was a change of owner of the guitar shop located at 2, Felipe V Street, with ownership passing from my uncle, Faustino Conde, to me. The next day (10th January 1985), I proceeded to apply for the corresponding Business Licence. The document in question is attached. From this it can be understood that the interviewee, Felipe Conde, had nothing to do with the company.

Secondly:

Felipe Conde states: “In 2010, he broke away from his brother Mariano and the guitar shop took his name.”

In 2010, the company dissolved after: a) he had previously reported me for unfair competition, with the hearing resulting in my favour; and b) trying to sack my son, the only apprentice at the workshop for two years, as a way of preventing my son having any advantage over his children, who had chosen to go to university. Attached is the letter of dismissal hand delivered by Felipe Conde to my son, Mariano Rodrigo Conde, on 28th November 2008. Also attached is the Civil Court Ruling No. 6 of 4th June 2009 dismissing Felipe Conde’s attempts to adopt preventative measures against me.

Thirdly:

Felipe Conde states in reference to Paco de Lucía: “On numerous occasions I have repaired the guitar he used in concert…”

Completely untrue and insulting as it was me who repaired it in Felipe V Street. On numerous occasions, the guitar in question was personally given to me to be repaired by Paco de Lucía’s brother, Ramón Sánchez, and their nephew, José María Bandera.

Fourthly:

Felipe Conde states: “Also forming part of this tiny sanctuary are the guitars that Felipe Conde personally made for Aldi Meola, Lenny Kravitz, David Byrne and Rafael Riqueni.”

These guitars were manufactured in the workshop on 2, Felipe V Street. My testimony and that of the company’s two apprentices speak about the authorship of these guitars, which does not, in anyway, belong to the interviewee. Furthermore, as a result of the shop closing, the two apprentices in question – for there were only two at the shop located at 2, Felipe V Street – joined my company at 1, Amnistía Street, where they continue to this day.

Half-truths (which, as we know, are the worst kind of lie):

Felipe Conde states: “that he started in the trade at 14 years of age.”

He entered into the family workshop on Gravina Street at 14 and left soon after.

Corrections directed to you:

Firstly:

You use two terms to describe my brother: “modest” and “quiet”. Let me ask you, can a person be called modest and quiet when they are devoted to contacting the media, whether television channels or press, with the sole aim of using them as a means for spreading commercial propaganda that lacks any truth? Just look at his television and press appearances after Leonard Cohen was awarded the Prince of Asturias Award, the death of Paco de Lucía, or the Centenary, which was the reason for your article. In headlines and in statements, in the case of Paco de Lucía, it was described how my brother, Felipe Conde, was the luthier responsible for making his instruments. In your interview, he now says that these guitars were made by my father and my uncle. At the time, I had to send explanatory notes to different media outlets refuting his claims, notes that I have attached.

Secondly:

“The shop façade has no windows or signs.”

Two observations: a) there are not any because it is a semi-basement; b) I do have windows and signs at my shop/workshop at 1, Amnistía Street. Windows which mean that anyone who wishes to see how guitars are made on a daily basis can do so without having to ring a doorbell. Signs that perfectly state my name and origin. This origin (the old Conde Brothers – Esteso’s Nephews shop) was covered up by me, in the beginning, with some black vinyl. One night it disappeared and had to be replaced shortly afterwards with nailed metal plaques. The old nails leave a mark on the signs to this day. The reason for my luthier origins being covered was due to one of the dissolution clauses preventing either party from making reference to it. The reason for the disappearance, according to a statement that I made to the police on 1st March 2010, was the desire for the corresponding compensation fixed in the clause.

A complaint made to the police on 11th February 2010 is attached, in which, when asked if I suspect anyone of removing the vinyl, I respond: my brother, Felipe Conde.

Conclusion:

I do not feel that it is ethical or moral that a person, by taking advantage of the media’s good faith and lack of fact verification, can place himself as the heir to a centenary tradition that can only be applied to him in name and not due to any professional merit.

Yours faithfully,

Mariano Félix Conde Cavia

•••••
It just seems really sad.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 11:10:50
 
tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

Greed can ruin any good relationship, no wonder it's a major sin

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 17:20:51
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 732
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

I am the secret lost love child of Faustino Conde. I am his true successor. I claim the throne.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 17:51:17
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

it is only a matter of time before one brother rats out the other brother for having guitars made in china.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 19:10:17
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15032
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to keith

quote:

ORIGINAL: keith

it is only a matter of time before one brother rats out the other brother for having guitars made in china.


At this point it is shocking that hasn't come out yet....but it makes me wonder...what if they actually build guitars???!!!!



Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px

Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 19:44:38
Guest

[Deleted] (in reply to tijeretamiel

[Deleted by Admins]
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 19:45:44
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15032
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to Guest

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf

Has anyone actually done a head to head comparison of the two luthiers products?


yes I have. Felipe guitars I played were VERY good, and so was one of his son's. They are extremely expensive however. He, his son and his wife I talked to and seemed very much aficionados of flamenco and guitars and were honestly curious about feedback and questions about the guitars. He only makes 2 models now.

Mariano guitars were pretty iffy, even if they are cheaper. My feeling was the finish was a lot thicker than I am used to with conde guitars, but they looked good, but sound was so so. He was sanding the back of a koa guitar the entire time I was in his shop, I thought he was gonna make a hole through the back (it was a closed box already). He showed me the basement workshop, he had guitars partially completed lying around in odd positions all over the place even on the floor. One finished guitar in the glass case I tried had NO label. He said he had two assitants and his son working with him. My friend asked me quietly "where the hell are they then, on siesta?". THe catalogue of guitars he offered were the full line as the old conde hermanos used to offer. Whole thing was weird.

Felipe never had a bad word to say about his brother.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 19:51:06
 
tk

Posts: 524
Joined: Jun. 15 2006
 

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

quote:

ORIGINAL: nealf

Has anyone actually done a head to head comparison of the two luthiers products?


yes I have. Felipe guitars I played were VERY good, and so was one of his son's. They are extremely expensive however. He, his son and his wife I talked to and seemed very much aficionados of flamenco and guitars and were honestly curious about feedback and questions about the guitars. He only makes 2 models now.

Mariano guitars were pretty iffy, even if they are cheaper. My feeling was the finish was a lot thicker than I am used to with conde guitars, but they looked good, but sound was so so. He was sanding the back of a koa guitar the entire time I was in his shop, I thought he was gonna make a hole through the back (it was a closed box already). He showed me the basement workshop, he had guitars partially completed lying around in odd positions all over the place even on the floor. One finished guitar in the glass case I tried had NO label. He said he had two assitants and his son working with him. My friend asked me quietly "where the hell are they then, on siesta?". THe catalogue of guitars he offered were the full line as the old conde hermanos used to offer. Whole thing was weird.

Felipe never had a bad word to say about his brother.


I played one at GSI from Felipe shop and did not like it. Nothing beats the old Conde's from the 70s. I had a 1990 Conde Negra, that was very good too (now at GSI, I don't own it) but whoever played it or listen to it, liked it. Again, from the 90s but not as good as the 70s negra (which I have owned 2 at one point).

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TK
http://www.youtube.com/user/Tsolakk
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 21:18:57
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 732
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tk

quote:

Nothing beats the old Conde's from the 70s.


Let's not say anything too bad about the bros or their respective guitars - they can do that themselves - but when you look at dealers advertising that they wish to buy second hand guitars the phrase "Hermanos Conde de la calle Gravina anteriores al año 88" is quite common. That would be my personal preference as well.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 11 2015 21:44:09
 
keith

Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to Ricardo

ricardo, what better ammo for the brothers to use to disparage the other by invoking rumored conde plants in china.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 0:43:33
Guest

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tk

Kind of curious here
I choose my 86 Blanca ( signed by both feuding brothers ) over a 73 Blanca

So
What went wrong in the early to mid 80's?!?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 7:00:21
 
Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006
 

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

All dynastys will go down and most of them from the inside.

I think the Hermanos Conde are ready for "la prensa rosa" in Tele5. A spanish television channel popular because they make programs where well-known persons sit and shout and insult each other for hours. Maybe they can allow them to throw guitars at each other.

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Blog: http://news-from-the-workshop.blogspot.com/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 8:53:53
 
Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
 

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

Weird (and sad).
Obviously someone is building really nice guitars under this name, but it can´t be found out who.

It could be bbecause of inconsistency with production, but I doubt it, because the typical gems seem to be described / experienced with very similar characteristics, whereas a builder who´d be grossly on and off from piece to piece should be rather unlikely.

Part of why the outstanding manufacturing can´t be cricled in must be the varying judge of us users. Our touch and perception seems to vary a lot.

Ruphus
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 10:00:22
 
RobJe

 

Posts: 732
Joined: Dec. 16 2006
From: UK

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to Guest

quote:

What went wrong in the early to mid 80's?!?


The short answer is that the two Conde Hermanos (nephews of Domingo Esteso) died - Faustino in 1988 and Mariano in 1989. Also, in the 1980s they were old men!

By 1985, the widow of Faustino (Julia) was already signing the labels of guitars with the Gravina address with her characteristic flourish (like a big “J”?). Who was making the guitars at this time and after Faustino’s death is a matter of speculation.

Over at the Felipe V address something else was going on. In1985 there is at least least one example where the guitar has an additional patch underneath the main label signed by Mariano’s sons Mariano Junior and Felipe with Mariano senior’s signature on the main label. A 1986 guitar (posted previously here) has the same but without the old boy’s signature. I like to think that this was Mariano saying “look boys, I won’t be around for much longer, you need to learn how to make guitars” – but who knows?

The speculation about what has been going on since 1990’s is understandable but often wild and ill-informed. I have lost interest in this.

However, the old boys could and did make guitars. They also had helpers. The signed and dated top models were not distinguished by a personal signature but hid under the generic “Conde Hermanos”. The labels included the name of their uncle, Domingo Esteso. If you asked professional guitarists in the 1960s the make of their guitars they would always say “Esteso” rather than “Conde”. Everyone thee days seems to claim "Faustino made my guitar" because he was the elder brother and reputed to have developed the design. Such claims are rarely verifiable.

They also had a small “factory” at Calle Santiago Maganto, Pozuelo de Alarcón between 1957 and 1968. In fact, the last time I looked, you can still see the Conde name on the gate at the end of Calle Guitarra (a small cul de sac off Santiago Maganto). The guitars that came from here were not signed or dated and they were not like modern cosmetically perfect factory jobs. They did however produce affordable real flamenco guitars, lightly built with that elusive “pulcacion” that the flamenco guitarist needs. Ok, sometimes the varnish flaked off after a short time and the slightly inferior timber split and warped, but who cared if you could get a few years of joyous playing out of them. They were exported widely and some dealers stuck their own labels over the original.

Rob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 10:20:14
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to Ruphus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ruphus

Weird (and sad).

Part of why the outstanding manufacturing can´t be cricled in must be the varying judge of us users. Our touch and perception seems to vary a lot.

Ruphus


I'm in agreement with Ruphus. It's really difficult to agree on 'the best' guitar as we all have different touches and means of playing. I remember reading a thread started by Richard Jernigan when he played one of Ricardo's guitars and couldn't really get on with it and Ricardo played one of his and had the same impression of sorts.

When it comes to Conde guitars be it Hermanos Conde, Felipe or Mariano or etc I myself am not concerned by the opinions of X guitar is made by X or Y and is better than X/Y/Z or X/Y is a liar/nice guy etc, J is the best guitar for flamenco, K is a pile of junk for flamenco etc. As a fan of flamenco, the Media Luna has historically been involved with flamenco for a long time. As of a fan of flamenco it makes me really sad to read of the familial deterioration, the speculations towards it all, and so on.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 10:33:47
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2222
Joined: Nov. 21 2010
 

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

quote:

When it comes to Conde guitars be it Hermanos Conde, Felipe or Mariano or etc I myself am not concerned by the opinions of X guitar is made by X or Y and is better than X/Y/Z or X/Y is a liar/nice guy etc, J is the best guitar for flamenco, K is a pile of junk for flamenco etc. As a fan of flamenco, the Media Luna has historically been involved with flamenco for a long time. As of a fan of flamenco it makes me really sad to read of the familial deterioration, the speculations towards it all, and so on.


¡Ole! A great guitar is a great guitar. Some Condes are great: I remember playing one in London, which was not loud or impressive but so cuddly that I would have bought it on the spot. I used to have a Melero, which was just the same, but I passed it to a young professional Gaditano tocaor who felt the same way, However the owner felt the same was as I did. When he comes home on holiday, he comes to visit and I have a private concert on Melero and Gerundino from a great guitarist. People who play my Gerundino take time to come to terms with it, but always end up freaked
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 14:07:23
 
jmb

Posts: 119
Joined: Oct. 14 2014
From: Vallecas - Madrid - Spain

RE: Conde vs Conde (in reply to tijeretamiel

When I read this brother fights and I think in the hours that I spent talking about posh guitars when I was younger and had time for flamenco guitar, instead playing, I always remember de videos of the poor Niño Miguel playing his three strings Alhambra ...

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Suenas payo ¡y lo sabes!

Sing and string - other flamenco blog
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Feb. 12 2015 15:39:13
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