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Here's a tango with drum and bass. Guess what? The drum and bass is harder to create than the flamenco guitar. And I'm also glad I can create a song that isn't just flamenco guitar and my own style though influenced by flamenco. Support real music
Posts: 15725
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
quote:
ORIGINAL: hardboiled
Here's a tango with drum and bass. Guess what? The drum and bass is harder to create than the flamenco guitar. And I'm also glad I can create a song that isn't just flamenco guitar and my own style though influenced by flamenco. Support real music
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
You've never responded to any of the threads you've started so I'm sure you wont read this but here goes. Honest opinion.
1st It's not tangos. Just because something is in 4/4 and phrygian doesn't mean it's tangos and therefor, not flamenco. It's fine that you like making music but try not to mislead people.
2nd It's "jump up" jungle and I get that, Aphrodite, Mickey Finn etc. but no one's really been doing jump up for over a decade, you may want to update your break beats a bit.
3rd Just because you like chocolate and you like salmon doesn't mean you should make a chocolate salmon sandwich..........
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins
Oh..
Iam also an "innovator" sometimes but usually I keep it to myself or just share it with Lenny
I think you tried to do this but.... you kinda failed IMO (and the sound is awful, sounds like multiple encodings done @128kbps):
At least you're having fun, that's what really matters.
Wait that's you? I thought Juno Reactor was a psy-trance outfit from the 90's.
Anyway, cool stuff - I liked the use of the rasgeados, and the intent/effort regardless of 'puro'-ness. I promise you I'll check them out if you keep posting here.
edit - I guess it's not you (doh), but I'd still love to hear your 'innovations'.
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to chester)
quote:
but I'd still love to hear your 'innovations'.
Oh no you don't, that's reserved for my lovers
Got to write a solea innovation about playing guitar for the ladies before going to the bedroom... your plan is 10min of guitaristic foreplay but it ends up going on for hours.
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
quote:
Got to write a solea innovation about playing guitar for the ladies before going to the bedroom... your plan is 10min of guitaristic foreplay but it ends up going on for hours.
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
To Hard boiled:
It sounds more like North African dance mix. Like if Moroccan kids were messing around with beats. Other than the stereotypical sliding E chord riff, which is not really flamenco, it has something. But reminds me of electronic North African pop gone techno.
Furthermore, if it were a Saturday afternoon and a Clint Eastwood film marathon were on TV and I had just eaten three or four Qualudes, and had decided to watch the movies it would go along with that scenario.
Seriously I think you should rework it and edit out the sliding E chord part, it's horrible cliche'. Then listen to some North African music or even some Qawwali music and pay attention to the singers melodies and the drumming.
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
quote:
I LOVE, how you "purists" hate on new music just as flamenco was hated on by classical musicians since they didn't understand it.
What you don't understand is that the only flamenco in your music is a crappy cliche that usually is used on movies to say "hey, we're in spain!...or mexico...or somewhere phrygian". The sound quality is total sheeet, which doesn't help either.
What would you say if someone showed you a simple 4 on the floor 808 beat and said "this is progressive dubstep, don't say it isn't great just because you don't understand it and bla bla bla"...?
You're being this ^ kind of dude right now. Don't be it, seriously.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to Sr. Martins)
quote:
What you don't understand is that the only flamenco in your music is a crappy cliche that usually is used on movies to say "hey, we're in spain!...or mexico...or somewhere phrygian". The sound quality is total sheeet, which doesn't help either.
I'm with you, Rui. To attempt to associate this noise with flamenco is a gross violation of "Truth in Advertising." And the drumming sounds like one of those guys on a street corner in Southeast Washington, DC pounding on empty, overturned plastic paint cans.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
quote:
I LOVE, how you "purists" hate on new music
I don't hate on drum and bass, I spun jungle at raves when I was in high school. I spun for MC Skibadee once, I've met Dieselboy, Technical Itch, Mickey Finn, LTJ Bukem, and I have Ak-1200's phone number in my cell. I was a for real Junglist. I don't listen to it anymore but I certainly don't hate it. You may have it in you to make good music but you have to try harder. More attention to detail, sound quality, musical ideas etc. It sounds like you put that together in an afternoon.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to Leñador)
quote:
It sounds like you put that together in an afternoon.
And for God sakes don't call it flamenco, tango or otherwise.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
And that praise was significant because Todd is a true and sophisticated critic. He is a formidably talented musician and learned connoisseur of flamenco, who can discern the most minuscule subtleties in a performance, and has the confidence to express his views straightforwardly.
Music and Art critics are proverbially "critical"; sometimes reviews are simply elegant prose written for entertainment. But, sometimes, as it is the case for ToddK, reviews whether good and bad can give guidance and direction, to the artist and the audience.
I learned a lot form Toddk. I make reference to his posts when I play or compose, and am glad we have someone who shoots from the hip and says it as it is.
In this case, that clip was really horrible. One could quietly ignore it, pay it some fake smile, or say that it is what it is "crap".
Sorry Chester, I am not trying to defend my post. The Forum would lose a lot if Toddk became more genteel and deprived us of his critical views.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
In this case, that clip was really horrible. One could quietly ignore it, pay it some fake smile, or say that it is what it is "crap". Sorry Chester, I am not trying to defend my post. The Forum would lose a lot if Toddk became more genteel and deprived us of his critical views.
quote:
Allow me to associate myself with your observation, Giacomo. There is nothing "juvenile" about Toddk's critiques. He says it straight, and he knows of what he speaks. Moreover, the one who posted the clip clearly did so knowing it would elicit a reaction, giving him the opportunity to reply, "Keep hating, following the herd, and upholding the status quo good job!" Now that is juvenile.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
I'm going to go against the herd and say you are all wrong except Jungle Boy Lenny.
Blammo! Fired one across the bow of the whole fleet!
Remember when you began trying to compose? What Hardboiled needs is to find a context of peers who will give him or her? some feed back that will enable them to go forward pr push them to make more compositions. It is pretty weak musically, but to treat this person so abusively is wrong and it bothers me.
When I tried to paint, or compose, or write or make a sculpture or make a guitar the first attempts were pretty bad. But people who knew more picked me up said ok next do this..and it will get better. And I tried harder and it began to improve. It also taught me a lesson.
Yes, like many others who are out to make first guitar, my ego was involved, I thought I was going to blow away some established makers because I thought they were making weasksauce guitars. Boy was I wrong. Lucky for me I did not shoot my mouth off too much and I took the ego lesson internally. But I'm pretty sure in other areas when I was young I was really annoying ( and rightfully still am) when talking about painting, but once more someone picked me up and said those colors you mixed are dirty and they really suck, but here's how to mix them clean and modulate them to make this or that kind of space.
I had a history teacher in high school and his maxim was if you make a critique in my class, then you have to have a reasoned out alternative. I other words you can't just trash an idea because you feel like it. I usually try in some way to look at more than one position in a situation. In this situation I can see the other side, and I can see the enthusiasm, and if we are being played by some jackass, then I am still going to take the higher route and encourage them to keep working.
Think back to your first creative efforts or professional efforts and your out of control ego on what ever subject it got out of control on and have some sympathy for those even trying to be creative today. Think hard an deep about the caring soul who took on your ego a mentored and taught you even though you were a big sheety pain in the ass.
The bottom line is remember where you came from creatively and if you have to trash some one out, you better F~ing well be smart enough to also give them a real crit about where to take it next.
There's no need for a group attack on one person because they posted some music out of our usual context and talked some trash talk. Let them go figure it out without wounding them too badly, just like others let you go a long time ago when you talked trash.
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to hardboiled)
And do I need to point out why people present their ego when they present a creative work? It's because they are insecure and because they don't know where they are yet.
Instead if sinking their boat, hand them a navigation map and tell them the edge of the world is that way > *points*
Look, if you think it makes you into a guy with a subtle mind and that it defines the extent to which you are a sophisticate because you can tell why someones art work is weak then you don't understand things yet. The really sophisticated mind or a great teacher can tell you why very complex things work, not why bad things suck. But in understanding why complex works or art function, that teacher can also take student with a crappy work work and turn them on a dime if the student follows. I've seen my old painting teacher Sam Tchakalian tell someone to edit out a few marks and throw on a few more in another spot a take a really crap painting a show the student how to see it. But he used skillful means to give the comment at just the right moment when the dumbass had let their ego guard down.
I've also seen the composer Alvin Curran listen to horrible student compositions in seminars and student recitals and grimace while he listened. Then later he would take the junky piece apart for the student and give them ideas about how to reorganize it and tell them to go fix it. I've also seen my old sculpture teacher Anna Valentina-Murch take a small sculpture made of straws and talk to the beginner student about the concept behind the structure they made. She was used to talking to the best architects in the world who were collaborating with her on major commissions all over the world.
It's been my observation over and over that the best teachers reach down to elevate the lowest students.
Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
Allow me to associate myself with your observation, Giacomo. There is nothing "juvenile" about Toddk's critiques. He says it straight, and he knows of what he speaks. Moreover, the one who posted the clip clearly did so knowing it would elicit a reaction, giving him the opportunity to reply, "Keep hating, following the herd, and upholding the status quo good job!" Now that is juvenile.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
--Rudyard Kipling
Good point, Bill. The post was most likely meant to be provocative. He was neither looking for guidance, nor was there any here to be given.
Humility was always met with warm keen encouragement, on this Forum, including by Toddk.
On the other hand, any conceited and ostentatious display of musical talent and self attributed superiority has only aroused antipathy, regardless of the author. And when it was coupled with poor performance and bad taste, then we each reacted differently. Many enjoy crafting witty innuendos to mock the author, but only a few, with guts, will explain why.
Posts: 2697
Joined: Jun. 7 2010
From: The South Ireland
RE: Flamenco guitar Tango mixed with... (in reply to gj Michelob)
quote:
Sorry Chester, I am not trying to defend my post.
You are exactly trying to defend your post ....if fact you went to great lengths to defend both yours and ToddK's post.
While the music may not be to everyone's liking , and definitely not my liking , there are horses for courses ... someone may like it , so good luck to them . I would not like to think that the foro is so elite that no one can even try to post something for fear of being a told its crappy , sucky music ...or similar ..
I would think if you don't like it , simply don't comment . and it may fade away naturally.
Critical commentary is much more that saying ''you suck''
.
quote:
Toddk's critiques are always well thought and spot on.
I cannot see , unlike you , to my own detriment , the well thought out bit of the comment '' Your music sucks'''
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