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RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'professional' ???   You are logged in as Guest
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BarkellWH

Posts: 2918
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

I will be 77 the day before Christmas. We're taking a couple of weeks off to go to Costa Rica to celebrate Larisa's Masters Degree.


Happy Birthday to you, too, Richard, as well as to Arthur (Britguy). Both of you are a bit ahead of me, but not by much. By the way, what did Larisa get her Masters Degree in?

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2014 20:45:39
 
Xavi

 

Posts: 68
Joined: Jul. 10 2012
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to BarkellWH

At 10, an animal;
At 20, a lunatic;
At 30, a failure;
At 40, a fraud;
At 50, a criminal;
At 60, one begins advising friends;
At 70, one keeps quiet and is taken for a sage;
At 80, then said Confucius, "I knew my ground and stood firm."
(Quoted from Joseph Campbell)

Nice to have some of the experience and wisdom of the "older guys" around here...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2014 21:00:05
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2918
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to Xavi

quote:

At 10, an animal;
At 20, a lunatic;
At 30, a failure;
At 40, a fraud;
At 50, a criminal;
At 60, one begins advising friends;
At 70, one keeps quiet and is taken for a sage;
At 80, then said Confucius, "I knew my ground and stood firm."
(Quoted from Joseph Campbell)

Nice to have some of the experience and wisdom of the "older guys" around here...


Monologue on "The Seven Ages of Man," from Shakespeare's "As You Like It."

All the world's a stage,
And all the men and women merely players.
They have their exits and their entrances,
And one man in his time plays many parts,
His acts being seven ages.

At first the infant,
Mewling and puking in the nurse's arms.
Then, the whining school-boy with his satchel
And shining morning face, creeping like snail
Unwillingly to school.

And then the lover,
Sighing like furnace, with a woeful ballad
Made to his mistress' eyebrow. Then, a soldier,
Full of strange oaths, and bearded like the pard,
Jealous in honour, sudden, and quick in quarrel,
Seeking the bubble reputation
Even in the cannon's mouth.

And then, the justice,
In fair round belly, with a good capon lined,
With eyes severe, and beard of formal cut,
Full of wise saws, and modern instances,
And so he plays his part.

The sixth age shifts
Into the lean and slippered pantaloon,
With spectacles on nose and pouch on side,
His youthful hose, well saved, a world too wide
For his shrunk shank, and his big manly voice,
Turning again toward childish treble, pipes
And whistles in his sound.

Last scene of all,
That ends this strange eventful history,
Is second childishness and mere oblivion,
Sans teeth, sans eyes, sans taste, sans everything

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 15 2014 21:33:22
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7545
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to BarkellWH

I think it is best to look to Mark Twain for the ultimate commentary on the difference between pro and amateur practice.

But since he was smart enough to never begin playing the wretched guitar, one must pass him by and look to Yogi Berra, the pun quipping baseball manager. But since Yogi was a ball player an not a string tickler, he may not be useful either.

The most salient thing to remember however, is to never ever ask a guitar player the difference between pro and amateur, because every guitar player thinks he is a professional and could never tell the difference.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 16 2014 2:18:19
 
rojarosguitar

Posts: 242
Joined: Dec. 8 2010
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to britguy

Great thread!

_____________________________

Music is a big continent with different lascapes and corners. Some of them I do visit frequently, some from time to time and some I know from hearsay only ...

A good musical instrument is one that inspires one to express as free as possible
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 16 2014 9:48:33
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11455
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to britguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

One of my Chinese friends sent me an interesting quote today:
" The amateur practices until he gets it right; the professional practices until he can not get it wrong. . ."

I was curious to see how many of us agreed or disagreed with this rather polarized statement? Do 'pro' players really practice differently from 'amateurs'?

Any thoughts?


Sounds more like advice for students to work harder than they have been in the past, rather than a general distinction between two types of musicians. To me "professional" just means you make money from music rather than implying a player at a "high level". Conversely an "amateur" simply does it as a hobby, not necessarily at a lower level. Indeed I often see very high level players that only play at home for fun, or are simply shy and don't want to "show off", or in some cases take pride (too much let's say) in their "secret" ability, knowing full well that they are higher level than some pros.

On the other hand there are way too many "pros" that are lacking certain skills because of either a). lack of talent or b). laziness, to be commanding such fees as they do on the circuit. I find both situations frustrating, but not much I can do about either other than encourge people to do their best and take it as serious as possible. Obviously, working proffessionals have the advantage of "practicing" on stage vs Amatures that must work at home. Both ways of practice have advantages and disadvantages. The mathematical constant in all cases is that practice makes PERMANENT, NOT perfect. With that in mind we find the people with more "talent" at the advantage as they have discovered the more efficient way to learn and practice vs the others that need to really work hard and spend more time at it.

Ricardo

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 16 2014 16:21:44
 
ric

 

Posts: 50
Joined: Dec. 27 2010
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to britguy

I think I agree with Ricardo that what determines a professional vs. amateur, at least in our culture, is money. Some say that "if you do anything for 10,000 hours you become an expert". Maybe for flamenco it's more like 100,000 hours. It seems that those that become professionals tend to be driven individuals. Ask Britney Spears if she has more drive or talent. So, at some point it becomes a question of motivation, and I would say that the professional is driven towards the goal of not getting it wrong, and the amateur is somehow accepting of getting it right and perhaps moving on to the next piece. Does that mean that the professional is obsessive and the amateur lazy?
Another question is does the professional think of himself as professional or might he think of himself as lazy, which drives him to become professional?
Or does the amateur wish he was professional, but realizing his own laziness, accept becoming a professional amateur?
For myself, for whatever reason, (probably laziness) I am semi-content to practice and at times condemn my ignorance, and at times go (as Steve Martin sez) "hey, this guys, goooood! Knowing I will probably never be professional--that it's the journey, not the goal. Somehow that's ok with me, as long as I enjoy what I'm doing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2014 15:05:39
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to ric

I partially disagree with Ricardo's view.

While there may be some individuals in each category who are better or worse than their title should suggest, a professional is one whose principal source of income is derived from his professional trade.

When that is the case, one devotes all of his business time to such a trade (8 to 16 hours a day).

If one devotes all of his business time to that trade, then the likelihood of improvement in skills and knowledge is certainly superior than it is for one who needs to carve time out of his trade to "play".

However, as it is also the case for any profession, incompetence affects anyone who thinks he has nothing left to learn.

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2014 19:55:35
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7545
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

I partially disagree with Ricardo's view.

While there may be some individuals in each category who are better or worse than their title should suggest, a professional is one whose principal source of income is derived from his professional trade.

When that is the case, one devotes all of his business time to such a trade (8 to 16 hours a day).

If one devotes all of his business time to that trade, then the likelihood of improvement in skills and knowledge is certainly superior than it is for one who needs to carve time out of his trade to "play".

However, as it is also the case for any profession, incompetence affects anyone who thinks he has nothing left to learn.

_____________________________


I think this gets at it, it boils down to total commitment.

But here's the problem with the basic comparison from the stand point of simply getting better; we all have different practice needs according to our time available and intentions. It worries me that people who are not intending to be pro compare their practice needs to pro practice needs.

I also seriously disagree with the often quoted Malcolm Gladwell maxim that 10,000 hours spent makes you master of something. I truly believe with the correct teacher and focused practice it is possible to achieve a fairly high level of playing in much less time than 10,000 hours. Interesting one of the people I heard speak about this idea was non other than the poet Maya Angelou, she said in 10,000 hours you have time to master many things.

I probably will not play the cello in public and make video, simply because I respect music too much to subject it to my caterwalling bowpulling and ape like grip on the neck. But I will say, in much less time than I thought I worked my skills up to another level by doing as my erstwhile teacher said, and doing it all really slowly.

If there is any difference between pro and no pro practice I think it must be that a pro has learned how to practice in a way that is super effective. Effective enough to get them performing well long, long before they reach the 10,000 hour benchmark. Which is why citing that absurd number bothers me. I have been get better in a very limited amount of time and with a chronic back injury because I figured out a way to break a task down and then reintegrate it to the whole technique. I think this might be where pros and amateurs alike can have common ground. I see it as slowing down to tech yourself how to do a task well and then adding that task to the others you have already learned. We all have that capability. I think it is more important to recognize that than make judgmental comparisons.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 1:01:22
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to estebanana

quote:

If there is any difference between pro and no pro practice I think it must be that a pro has learned how to practice in a way that is super effective.


Absolutely a great point, Steve, but one that can also hold true for amateurs.

I propose that it is not just "practice" (as the NY Cab driver replied to the young Lady who asked him "how do I get to Carnegie Hall?"), but most importantly the privilege to dedicate life to music. That means time to listen, think, read, dream, play and, yes.... even practice.

I spend an enormous amount of time reading case law and legal literature that has nothing to do with my area of practice, and find reading Churchill or even the Libretto of Verdi's Rigoletto most useful (I quoted from it and successfully in a case "pagarlo metà subito e metà ad omicidio compiuto" -pay half now and the other half after the murder will have been committed).

Professionals (in any profession) devote themselves to what they do, Amateurs devote what they can after they are done devoting themselves to their profession!

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 1:49:51
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7545
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

Professionals (in any profession) devote themselves to what they do, Amateurs devote what they can after they are done devoting themselves to their profession!


I'll drink to that

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 2:31:26
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 2918
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

Professionals (in any profession) devote themselves to what they do, Amateurs devote what they can after they are done devoting themselves to their profession!


Giacomo, you have just condensed the vast amount of print and paragraphs (including mine) that have been expended on this topic, as well as stripped out all unnecessary variables and assumptions, to state the obvious in its most concise form.

You, sir, have just demonstrated the power of Ockham's Razor on the Foro.

Cheers,

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 2:31:39
 
estebanana

 

Posts: 7545
Joined: Oct. 16 2009
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Giacomo, you have just condensed the vast amount of print and paragraphs (including mine) that have been expended on this topic, as well as stripped out all unnecessary variables and assumptions, to state the obvious in its most concise form.

You, sir, have just demonstrated the power of Ockham's Razor on the Foro.


I'll have a double.

_____________________________

https://www.stephenfaulkguitars.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 6:19:36
 
gj Michelob

Posts: 1531
Joined: Nov. 7 2008
From: New York City/San Francisco

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Giacomo


As they say, you had me at ... Giacomo

Thank you for your kind words.

_____________________________

gj Michelob
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 15:45:36
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11455
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

ORIGINAL: BarkellWH

quote:

Professionals (in any profession) devote themselves to what they do, Amateurs devote what they can after they are done devoting themselves to their profession!


Giacomo, you have just condensed the vast amount of print and paragraphs (including mine) that have been expended on this topic, as well as stripped out all unnecessary variables and assumptions, to state the obvious in its most concise form.

You, sir, have just demonstrated the power of Ockham's Razor on the Foro.

Cheers,

Bill


I am in complete agreement, so long as we insert a "should" in front of the word "devote". Unfortunately, the reality is not always that way. Some pros are not completely "devoted" as you describe it, and plenty of amatures put way more time and energy into their hobby than anything else in their lives... not always with positive outcomes for their professions or personal lives. Thinking about ourselves when we were youngsters compared to now, we can replace the term "profession" with "student" and anything we devote our time to outside of school is a "hobby", like it or not. I for one couldn't wait until I got out of school so that I could get serious about "playing". But it doesn't mean that was not totally devoted as a kid, nor that I am no longer having things to learn...I just define things interms of how I make a living. For me it was a "hobby" when I was in school, and now it is my profession. But I practiced WAY more back then that is for sure.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2014 16:14:28
 
archie640

 

Posts: 9
Joined: Dec. 10 2012
From: Bradford United Kingdom

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to Argaith

I agree, it's very difficult when you want to reach your optimum level of guitar playing and your continually inhibited by having to work a 9 to 5, all ametures feel they they could be the next paco without having to undergo the daily grind!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jan. 4 2015 22:47:09
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 262
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

practice makes PERMANENT, NOT perfect.


I don't get this. Could you explain it to me?

My favourie 2 E's are effectivity and efficiency. Combining both everyone will get results. I'll apply this 2E concept to my practice routine. I'm pretty sure this will make my guitar playing perfect.

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Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 3 2019 16:17:18
 
flyeogh

Posts: 638
Joined: Oct. 13 2004
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

quote:

practice makes PERMANENT, NOT perfect.

I don't get this. Could you explain it to me?


Devilhand I assume the misunderstanding is down to how you define "effectively" but here is an example of what I believe Ricardo is getting at.

January 1st I started to practice 2 hours a day in a very effective way (i.e what I practiced became more automatic, natural, faster and sounded good ), and with the time I had very efficiently. So much so that my right-hand position became very automatic, very comfortable - you could say permanent. In April I visited a prof and we looked at deficiencies with my playing new exercises for double arpeggios faster and smoother. He suggested (he's a nice guy - not to forceful) that my right-hand position would be better if I increased the angle to the strings positioning my fingers further back (giving more room for the pulgar to operate on the D and G strings). The new position made perfect sense not only for my double arpeggios but in general. However it took several months of dedicated and thoughtful practice to make the new position automatic and natural. (I'd had to check my hand position every minute or it would slip back into its old comfortable position). Only now 6 months later is the new position automatic and comfortable.

In those first three months (180 hours) I had effectively and efficiently made a bad habit a permanent part of my playing.

I think Ricardo's oft repeated observation would be my most valuable single piece of advice to grace this foro. I certainly now visit my local prof only to catch and iron-out bad technique at the earliest stage possible.

HTH

_____________________________

nigel (el raton de Watford - now Puerto de Santa Maria, Cadiz)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 4 2019 5:51:51
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 262
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to flyeogh

quote:

ORIGINAL: flyeogh

quote:

quote:

practice makes PERMANENT, NOT perfect.

I don't get this. Could you explain it to me?


Devilhand I assume the misunderstanding is down to how you define "effectively" but here is an example of what I believe Ricardo is getting at.

January 1st I started to practice 2 hours a day in a very effective way (i.e what I practiced became more automatic, natural, faster and sounded good ), and with the time I had very efficiently. So much so that my right-hand position became very automatic, very comfortable - you could say permanent. In April I visited a prof and we looked at deficiencies with my playing new exercises for double arpeggios faster and smoother. He suggested (he's a nice guy - not to forceful) that my right-hand position would be better if I increased the angle to the strings positioning my fingers further back (giving more room for the pulgar to operate on the D and G strings). The new position made perfect sense not only for my double arpeggios but in general. However it took several months of dedicated and thoughtful practice to make the new position automatic and natural. (I'd had to check my hand position every minute or it would slip back into its old comfortable position). Only now 6 months later is the new position automatic and comfortable.

In those first three months (180 hours) I had effectively and efficiently made a bad habit a permanent part of my playing.

I think Ricardo's oft repeated observation would be my most valuable single piece of advice to grace this foro. I certainly now visit my local prof only to catch and iron-out bad technique at the earliest stage possible.

HTH


Thnks for the clarification. You're right. This is the most important advice ever. My 2E concept implies exactly the same. I have to say that "practice makes permanent, not perfect" is formulated in an inconcrete way.

The concrete way of saying it could have been like "Wrong practice makes permanent, correct practice makes perfect". Even this version needs some clarification.
What does permanent mean? What is the distinction between wrong and correct practice? I think one cannot express the correct way of practicing in just one sentence.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 11:40:03
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11455
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

quote:

practice makes PERMANENT, NOT perfect.


I don't get this. Could you explain it to me?

My favourie 2 E's are effectivity and efficiency. Combining both everyone will get results. I'll apply this 2E concept to my practice routine. I'm pretty sure this will make my guitar playing perfect.


It’s not that complicated. What ever you practice becomes a permanent part of your playing, “right” or “wrong” doesn’t matter. If you want to develop a different way of doing something it won’t be easy to “unlearn” the old drilled in habit, and in many cases it’s actually impossible to change... literally “permanent”. There is also a literal age line where if did or did not devolop a certain skill before you 20s, it will not ever get learned or unlearned the same way. It’s physical actually.

The way I see it is when you learn a “correct” new concept, don’t try to replace the old thing, simply work on it as a new and different thing. For example if you learn some falseta with wrong technique or wrong compas, just pretend it’s completely different falseta, rather than view it as fixing a mistake, the never ending uphill battle.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 13:57:12
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 262
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to Ricardo

Ok. Got it. In which cases can practice make your playing perfect? I'm wondering how do professional players see it.

IMO, kicking the old habits means ineffectivity which puts efficiency aspects into question. That's why I'll start play flamenco only after I get the techniques right. For this, I need at least one or two years depending on how efficient I practice. Only techniques. In the meantime I'll learn compas for palos I like without guitar.

Effectivity is a different animal. The most important thing for me is to do/learn the right things (effectivity) in an efficient manner (efficiency). No time to unlearn something I already learnt.

What do you guys think? Does my approach help me become a good tocaor (I won't be a pro) or do you suggest another approach?

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 15:05:25
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11455
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to devilhand

quote:

ORIGINAL: devilhand

Ok. Got it. In which cases can practice make your playing perfect? I'm wondering how do professional players see it.

IMO, kicking the old habits means ineffectivity which puts efficiency aspects into question. That's why I'll start play flamenco only after I get the techniques right. For this, I need at least one or two years depending on how efficient I practice. Only techniques. In the meantime I'll learn compas for palos I like without guitar.

Effectivity is a different animal. The most important thing for me is to do/learn the right things (effectivity) in an efficient manner (efficiency). No time to unlearn something I already learnt.

What do you guys think? Does my approach help me become a good tocaor (I won't be a pro) or do you suggest another approach?


Perfect playing only means you perform it “exactly as intended or practiced”. Again, to some objective view it might still be “wrong”.

Effective or ineffective only means it works or doesn’t work FOR YOU. Again that doesn’t mean it is “correct” or the same way the maestro you are emulating is doing it. For example when Paco de Lucia was young he came along playing Ricardo Escudero and others, somehow it was more “correct” or what they perhaps were intending and not pulling off... he showed a way to do it that we can say “is correct”... but guess what? Escudero for example said his changes were not good, or it was wrong what he did. And in comes the nonsense about feeling vs technique etc.

I am afraid you have too much of your own personal ideas about how YOU think you should learn, that you are setting up for a hard road, avoiding the path that’s already been cut out for you. For example, some want to learn opera but avoiding the age old bel canto teaching route never seems to produce the three tenors equivalents... no short cuts and no point to fight the system set up already taylored for the specific discipline.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 15:26:39
 
Piwin

Posts: 2539
Joined: Feb. 9 2016
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to devilhand

I remember meeting a guy who was always going on about those American books with X amount of hours to do something. Supposedly "science" showed blablabla. I remember thinking that he spent so much time thinking and talking about what was the most effective/efficient way to learn that he never really just got down to work.

I wouldn't postpone playing. Making mistakes is part of the process. Postponing playing for 2 years is like trying to learn a language but saying you'll spend 2 years only doing grammar drills before trying to speak to someone. The person who jumps in right away and starts talking, mistakes and all, will learn faster and better than you. Not to mention that you run the risk of just giving up if all you're doing is grammar drills (unless you're one of those people who loves grammar drills for their own sake). So dive in. But you want a teacher, and practice time, to make sure that you're building the proper skills along the way and that you don't leave bad habits the time to sink in.

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J'ouvre une parenthèse. Si vous avez un peu trop d'air, je la refermerai tout de suite.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 5 2019 15:44:37
 
devilhand

 

Posts: 262
Joined: Oct. 15 2019
 

RE: Practicing - 'amateur' vs 'profe... (in reply to Ricardo

@Mr Marlow and Piwin Thanks for your reply.

quote:

no short cuts and no point to fight the system set up already taylored for the specific discipline.


I don't question the system you're talking about. What I want is to include practice principles into that system because how we practice is left to the students.

_____________________________

Say No to Fuera de Compás!!!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 7 2019 15:58:54
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