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Richard Jernigan

Posts: 3455
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA

RE: Mad Max (in reply to gj Michelob

quote:

ORIGINAL: gj Michelob

I had a similar reaction, the first time I watched it, Richard. It is, however, the unvarnished and in-your-face realism with which Mel Gibson brought back to life ages of time we cannot relate to, nor ever fully appreciate, that was revolutionary.



My problem was that it was difficult for me to avoid associating the savagery depicted in Apocalypto with that of my time in Central America.

RNJ
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 29 2014 18:44:11
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3470
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

I am not nearly as familiar with U.S. government policy toward genocide as I am with attitudes of "Anglo" Texans of my great-grandparents' generation, and of the resulting Texas government policies, both as a republic and as a state. You will note that there are very few Indian reservations in Texas, and the few which exist are very small.


No doubt about the attitudes, Richard. But I think that attitude was shared by many living in the borderlands of Arizona and other states and territories (not just Texas), as opposed to official U.S. Government policy of forcing Indians onto rservations. Texas has very few Indian reservations, but I'm not sure that is a consequence of Texans' attitudes toward Indians. In the first place, the major Indian presence in Texas was the Commanche, and the Commanche entered Texas from the area of the Southern Rockies. When the Commanche established themselves in Texas, they drove out many other Indian tribes and groups, most prominently the Mescalero Apache. Then the Federal Government in the 19th century drove the Commanche out of Texas and onto reservations in Oklahoma. The placement of Indian reservations was primarily the responsibility of the Federal Government, not the states. That might go a long way in explaining why there are fewer Indian reservations in Texas.

Regarding the Commanche forcing the Apache out, it is a historical fact that many Indian tribes and groups were subjugated and forced out of their territory by other Indian tribes. A prime example in Arizona is the Navajo who, along with the Apache (both Athabaskans), came down from Canada to their current territory in Arizona, New Mexico, and Utah. Both Navajo and Apache were nomadic and aggrssive toward tribes existing in the region. They made war against the sedentary tribes such as the Hopi, Zuni, and other tribes who had been in the region for centuries. In fact, the Hopi, Zuni, and others, who we now call "Pueblo Indians," established themselves in their iconic cliff dwellings, not because of the Spanish, but prior to the Spanish arrival in order to protect themselves from marauding Navajo and Apache. The myth of "peaceful" Indians living in harmony with their surroundings and their fellows is, in many cases, just that--a myth. It was true in some cases, and in some cases not.

By the way, if you want to read a very good book on how certain vigilantes and "scalp-hunters" operated along the Texas-Mexico borderlands, I highly recommend Cormac McCarthy's "Blood Meridian." It is the tale of "The Judge" and his band roaming the borderlands and killing Indians. It is not easy reading, and the violence inherent in the story is relentless. But I think it is the best book written to date by McCarhy.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2014 19:08:00
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3470
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

quote:

My problem was that it was difficult for me to avoid associating the savagery depicted in Apocalypto with that of my time in Central America.


The Miskito Indians, living along the coast of Honduras and Nicaragua, have had a hard go of it (particularly in Nicaragua) regardless of who was in charge. During Somoza's regime they were abused and worse. And when the Marxist Sandinista's took over Nicaragua in 1979, the Miskito continued to be abused and worse. When the FSLN (Sandinista National Liberation Front) assumed power under Daniel Ortega, Tomas Borge, a prominent FSLN commander, was made Minister of the Interior (in charge of internal security and police, not, as in the U.S., of national parks). Sandinista policy was to bend the Miskito to Sandinista policies via "Comites de Defensa Sandinista."

At the time, I was assigned to the American Embassy in Tegucigalpa, Honduras. Along with our Embassy in Managua, Nicaragua, we followed events unfolding in Nicaragua closely, especially in debriefing and gaining information from Nicaraguans who had arrived in Honduras in order to escape Sandinista policies. Several Miskito groups formed guerrilla units to fight the Sandinista central government and its policy of expropriating Miskito land and nationalizing it. Borge, the Interior Minister, ordered Sandinista troops to eliminate Miskito communities and groups who refused to accept Sandinista policies. In February 1982, an estimated 80 Miskito villages were burned to the ground, women raped, and other atrocities committed.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Nov. 30 2014 19:32:37
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3470
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to runner

quote:

What the world really needs is far fewer languages (do we really need to restore a viable Cornish-speaking population in Cornwall?), and far less obsession with "ethnic pride and diversity".


You make a good point, Runner. Language and ethnic "pride" appear to be as destructive forces in the world as religion. Just look at Quebec and Canada a few years ago; or the Flemish speakers vs. the French-speaking Walloons in Belgium; or the Catalans and Basques in Spain; and probably a hundred other linguistic and ethnic groups that would like "autonomy" and "independence" around the world. And in the United States what was once the goal of people of good will for inclusiveness has for the past 30 years gone in the opposite direction, resulting in ethnic enclaves in everything from university dormitories to the absurd calls for the American Southwest to be returned to Mexico. And, of course, in many cases "identity politics" seems to trump rational thought in the political process.. I agree that what we need is less linguistic and ethnic fragmentation, not more!

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2014 1:36:45
 
runner

 

Posts: 357
Joined: Dec. 5 2008
From: New Jersey USA

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Until recently, the great and differentiating hallmark of Americs has been its ability to absorb large numbers of diverse peoples and eventually turn them into Americans. I personally have no particular pride in any of my several ancestries, or even in any of my ancestors for that matter. I do (objectively, I believe) have a certain special affection for the British because of their halting, unsteady, often retrograde, yet ultimately progressive lurch over the centuries toward representative government, that has been an inspiration to others over the years, and triggered our own experiments here in America. But otherwise I have no enthusiasm for protestations of ethnic or liguistic or religious "pride" beyond merely enjoying one's ethnicity as a harmless hobby--fancy dress, food, music, whatnot; much of it (like a lot of "Scottish" rigmarole) the product of 19th century boosterism. I like to hope that most people will think highly enough of themselves as unique individuals so as to not need to rely upon the uncertain foundation of one's "ethnicity" for validation. Where these extrapersonal loyalties get completely out of hand is fully explored in Eric Hoffer's landmark study of the fanatical mind, "The True Believer". We see the results of this pathology in the Mideast today.

On that note, I will observe that, whatever one thinks of the Assad regime in Syria, I predict that the Alewite minority there will literally fight to the death against what they perceive (very probably correctly) as a fanatical Sunni jihad against them that seeks their extermination. For similar reasons the Iranians will not give up their nuclear ambitions, especially with an increasingly unstable Sunni-dominated and Taliban-menaced nuclear Pakistan next door.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 1 2014 3:31:42
 
sig

 

Posts: 296
Joined: Nov. 7 2007
From: Wisconsin

RE: Mad Max (in reply to BarkellWH

Yup, that was a good Mel Gibson movie. I also thought Galipoli was another very good Peter Weir/Mel Gibson collaboration...
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 9 2014 17:08:36
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

2 more days!!!

http://youtu.be/LFIWyda1vVs

some cool trivia:

http://youtu.be/7UX0Vy_V-ts

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 13 2015 16:38:22
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

well, it was an amazing epic action film, the visuals were amazing...story not bad either. At least I know in the post apocalyptic future guitar players still have a job!

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2015 19:10:50
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Been waiting for your review.
I'm not a big movie person but this one's peaked my interest.

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 17 2015 19:59:43
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

Forgot to post these from Halloween....if you saw the new Mad Max fury Road you will understand...

http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Ur52452.jpeg
http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Ca81897.jpeg
http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Sq48328.jpeg

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2015 11:52:29
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Funny.. it was one of the most terrible boring movies I've ever seen.

_____________________________

"Ya no me conoce el sol, porque yo duermo de dia"
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2015 13:10:46
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

Haha nice! Looks like fun, that makes me wanna have kids lol Gunna have to settle with making my cat wear aluminum foil Viking helmets for now.

_____________________________

\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2015 14:17:30
 
tijeretamiel

 

Posts: 441
Joined: Jan. 6 2012
 

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

Forgot to post these from Halloween....if you saw the new Mad Max fury Road you will understand...

http://www.foroflamenco.com/upfiles/313/Ur52452.jpeg


Bwah ha ha ha!

Great work on the costumes!
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2015 14:26:50
 
Escribano

Posts: 6441
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo



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Foro Flamenco founder and Admin
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 17 2015 14:55:21
 
edguerin

Posts: 1599
Joined: Dec. 24 2007
From: Siegburg, Alemania

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Forgot to post these from Halloween..

Well at least there's a guitar on one of 'em

_____________________________

Ed

El aficionado solitario
Alemania
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 18 2015 8:32:53
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

Funny.. it was one of the most terrible boring movies I've ever seen.


?...ah...mediocre!



_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Dec. 24 2015 14:52:27
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

Ok, it has been 9 years and finally the next of supposedly 3 new Max films has come out, Furiosa. Spoiler ALERT if you want to see it first don’t read the following.

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Ok, it was long discussed and anticipated. Most of us wanted this Furiosa back story to come out much later (or never), as it was also proposed that Max with Tom Hardy would feature the Road Warrior in “The Wasteland”. It makes more sense to have reversed these stories, but too late now. But again a “prequel” using the same actors is always a bad idea because…you know….aging and entropy??

So as expected this Furiosa has divided the fans and while it is yet another exciting action packed car chase movie, the story is for me really badly thought out. You have to be super careful when doing a back story or prequel because you can’t rely on suspense of the main characters (we know pretty much their fate already), and of course continuity. We Gen Xers watch in horror as George Lucas proceeded to ruin his own amazing Star Wars story with careless writing of inferred previous Episodes. I don’t understand why the concept of Entropy and the arrow of time eludes these writers. What I see going on is that in the 80s, there were 3 amazing sequals created that fleshed out some original story idea with brilliant world building, and for whatever reason, modern movie making has tried in vain to recreate that type of success. It is all in the STORY that must be very carefully planned IMO. Those 3 films were Road Warrior, Empire Strikes Back, and Aliens. As sequels that are typically doomed to fall short, they are unique thanks to the excellent and careful writing that was so good, it spawned countless copies and adaptions and attempts at more. But it has all been very poor.

In hindsight the Fury Road story and film worked mainly because it is more like reboot of the original Road Warrior concept, and therefore contained too many obvious inconsistencies if taken as a sequel. That plus everyone was thirsty for a real movie vs the garbage that has been put out in the last two decades. So this recent attempt needed to be handled with care IMO, and it was not in terms of story. First her name….obvious a play on the “Fury Road” theme, but as a little girl? The fact she would have such a name literally makes zero sense. I guess if they could have shown her getting it as a nick name for being and angry kid or something, but that they named her that from birth is silly IMO. It gets worse from there in terms of believability akin the transformation of Anakin into Darth Vader. The main bad guy with his teddy bear was really not well done, nor that sinister (never saw Thor and realized the connection later, but I was like “why is this guy wearing a cape like a superhero?”). The fact he kills his own to trick the Gas Towners to open the gate was a weak way for us to consider the guy “evil” at all. The fact that worked well enough to do the Trojan horse thing was very weak. At least ripped from Road Warrior, which was a way more realistic scenario, such that it was real and scary and Wez had little chance to succeed and doesn’t….I could go on and on. But after they get in they don’t even bother to show how the heck they could take it over in Reality, which made it even LESS believable than it was already. Many details like that, and the fact the beautiful girl could hide out amongst all those men is silly, the Romance was not convincing, and therefore neither is her over the top revenge. The ONLY thing that saves this film for me is the fact that it, like all the Mad Max films after the first one, is framed in a Subjective narration subject to inconsistency as they are “stories” being told about loosely factual events (in the far future of course). So they are all permitted to exist as subjective view points in the same universe if you want. Using the same Rictus actor was really a poor decision, and Immortan Joe functioning as the “Good guy” sort of softens and confuses the entire Fury Road movie. The actress is great and does the best should could possibly do with the given material, and makes the film watchable. Too bad she is so pretty/feminine and short, but she sort of delivers the character toward the end as the tough androgynous Furiosa of Theron.

For what it is worth, Miller could have done way better by simply doing a SEQUEL to the Fury Road, such that Hardy as max has aged and has other adventures, for example he has no choice but to meet up again with Theron, who is the ruler of the Citadel after all, and Miller could keep his main ideas together perhaps showing flashbacks. Tons of potential to do a great story there, as the world has already been built. But I am afraid this film will have killed the franchise when the smoke clears. There were only 5 people including myself in the massive IMAX theater.

_____________________________

CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 5 2024 15:45:20
 
silddx

Posts: 804
Joined: May 8 2012
From: London

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Ricardo

Mad Max 2 is one of my favourite films, saw it at the cinema five times when it was released, and seen it very many times since. Quite like the first one, but I think Thunderdome was dreadful, a despicable cartoon version of the first two. I haven't seen FR, and won't be watching the new ones, although George Miller justified making them very well in a BBC interview I heard a couple of weeks ago.

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The early bird catches the worm. But the second mouse gets the cheese.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2024 13:05:18
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15329
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Mad Max (in reply to silddx

quote:

but I think Thunderdome was dreadful,


As a little kid I was really deep into Americanized Road Warrior (MM2 was never a title we used in America, and the first film “Mad Max” had overdubs and editing that ruined the realistic feel the original has), I had my mocked up toy muscle car with blower, sawed off toy shot gun, etc., and suddenly my dad said Thunderdome just came out. It was super exciting at the time. So the consensus most of us fans have is the film started off ok, and takes a hard right turn after the Thunderdome battle, and the writers manage to lose their OWN narrative. As a kid when it came out on VHS I would only watch it up to that point and turn it off. Fury Road was certainly a reboot, admittedly a better one then rest of the 80’s reboots. What grew on me as an adult is the original Mad Max film on blue ray high quality minus the overdubs and edits, it is actually a terrifyingly realistic stand alone movie that I now enjoy just as much MM2. Why the heck such great world building that was done has to be rebooted rather than expanded is odd to me. It seems all the rest of the franchise is just a car chase really.

My Australian guitar student made this personalized documentary for me some years back:



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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 10 2024 13:29:16
 
tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Mad Max (in reply to Richard Jernigan

I agree with your review of the latest movie.
It had too much of the "modern hollywood" BS and humor. Hemsworth was a poor choice as a bad guy for the movie. The main actress I think worked well in the role and was the only good thing about the movie I think.

The fury road was twice better movie with better actor choices. The latest one was not very enjoyable and disappointment, I think it would have been better to stop with the fury road.

These prequel movies require some serious skills to make, and we dont seem to have it in hollywood no longer. Hollywood is pretty much dead anyway unfortunately, lucky for us we have tons of good movies from the past decades if one just takes the time to discover the hidden gems.

Empty large movie theatres, too common these days... No wonder though with the ticket prices.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Jun. 21 2024 0:46:39
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