Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day!
Here in Samoa it is November 5, Guy Fawkes Day, which celebrates the foiled Gunpowder Plot in the 1605 attempt to blow up Parliament and assassinate King James 1. Although Samoa does not celebrate the holiday, New Zealand TV (which we receive in Samoa) mentions it prominently. So let's raise a glass to celebrate Guy Fawkes Day.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to Escribano)
quote:
We do it tomorrow, on our 5th
You could get ahead of the game by using the old justification: "It's November 5 somewhere in the world."
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to Guest)
Happy Birthday Shroomy 726!!
It is traditional to set fire works and light a bonfire in the UK for the celebration of Guy Fawkes..... I'm currently in Spain and not being ofay with the local laws , do not see myself lighting a fire, cooking a banger, throwing a banger and prancing around with a sparkler or two on an unnamed mound .....!! Those who do back in UK, then I hope you enjoy.
Posts: 6447
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to pink)
quote:
I'm currently in Spain and not being ofay with the local laws , do not see myself lighting a fire, cooking a banger, throwing a banger and prancing around with a sparkler or two on an unnamed mound .....!!
They do that at every fiesta. Grown men launching cohetes between finger and thumb at 3:00am. You'll be fine
p.s. my dog and my cat don't give a toss about the fireworks here tonight - very odd.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to Escribano)
It is November 6 here in Samoa, so I celebrated with a couple of Vailima beers last evening, November 5. Nevertheless, as today is November 5 in the UK, and as the sun has long since crossed the yardarm, I will close the Embassy at 5:00 PM and immediately head for a nearby watering hole to hoist a couple more in honor of Guy Fawkes Day.
And a very Happy Birthday to you, Shroomy!
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to BarkellWH)
So as I understand it, this Guy Fawkes attempted to commit a terrorist act, motivated by his religious beliefs, and was tortured and executed for his crimes. And you celebrate that the King was saved.
That description could be used for any number of contemporary events. It's sad that we have learned so little in the past 400 years.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to timoteo)
quote:
So as I understand it, this Guy Fawkes attempted to commit a terrorist act, motivated by his religious beliefs, and was tortured and executed for his crimes. And you celebrate that the King was saved. That description could be used for any number of contemporary events. It's sad that we have learned so little in the past 400 years.
Guy Fawkes was caught, the king was saved, and parliament was not blown up. Just as (one hopes) terrorists today are caught or neutralized before they can do their intended harm to an innocent public and its institutions. What's not to celebrate?
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
Guy Fawkes was caught, the king was saved, and parliament was not blown up. Just as (one hopes) terrorists today are caught or neutralized before they can do their intended harm to an innocent public and its institutions. What's not to celebrate?
Well, apart from the unseemliness of celebrating months of torture, a kangaroo court, and a gruesome execution (only four days after the start of the trial) ... and for that matter celebrating by burning in effigy and stomping on a grave ... there are many reasons why we should not be proud of where we are today versus where we were then. Being content that justice was done in this instance is one thing, but Fawkes' case doesn't demonstrate the triumph of law over revenge, nor does it demonstrate the justness of the King's rule. Just the opposite - it was by a failure of government that these events transpired the way they did. The subsequent "celebration" was initiated by the government by playing up populist, anti-Cathoic sentiment, and was used to distract the populace from the problems of the day and to shift the resentment onto a repressed group of people.
First of all there's the religious intolerance and persecution that motivated this act. Four hundred years later, we hopefully recognize the injustice of the campaign by the British government to compel a state-sponsored belief system and to classify opposition to that system as treason. Yet today states still promote religions and persecute those who won't assimilate. This type of religious intolerance has caused countless misery and deaths, and continues to inflict us with war, terrorism, and poverty. These days Muslims get most of the blame for this, but clearly the problem isn't solely in the provenance of any one religion because Fawkes was fighting for Catholicism. And it's not like the British persecution of Catholics was isolated to 400 years ago - it has been endemic up until about 50 years ago and still persists today. Over the years the Guy Fawkes celebration has been a most public expression of anti-Catholic sentiment in England, and in fact it used to be customary to burn an effigy of the Pope at these events. From England, this anti-Catholic sentiment spread to the USA and other parts of the world and affected many societies for hundreds of years, leaving residual effects even today. To me, the "celebration" has a lot in common with cross burning in the South (USA) as an expression of hate towards a certain group of people. (Those are "joyful" celebrations too ...). Sure, I understand that many if not most of the Guy Fawkes day celebrants don't think this way anymore, but that doesn't make the institutionalized commemoration any less offensive.
Secondly, there's celebration of the use of torture to punish enemies of the state. Until recently, I thought that at least some governments had progressed beyond that. But it seems that most people have little faith in the rule of law, and when push comes to shove, whenever we are most concerned about "justice", we throw the rules out the window and resort to inhumane and base behaviour justified by our own righteousness. In my opinion, those who don't follow the law and don't respect the Constitution (USA), even when it's not on their side, aren't patriots, they're selfish nationalists who are as much of a threat to the ideal of a just society as any terrorist or criminal.
Anyway, I'm not against Guy Fawkes day, I just don't see the point of celebrating the events as if they were something to be happy about. I see the events more as a cautionary tale demonstrating why we need to do better. Go ahead and have a pint, just don't delude yourself into thinking that this is a cause for celebration. Maybe raise your glass in the hope that we've learned our lesson, in the hope of tolerance and justice in the future, in the hope that our governments will stop using fear hatred to rule, and in the hope that we can all live together despite our differences.
Bill, I'm sure you can read the not-so-veiled subtext in the above about my displeasure with US actions over the past 10 years, but please don't try to extrapolate that into a picture of who I am or what I believe in - I can guarantee you would come to the wrong conclusion.
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to BarkellWH)
I'm in favor of Guy Fawkes day because it takes the pressure off me.
What the Fawkes is going on here?
How the Fawkes did that happen?
Now you Fawkes-ed it up again?
I used to hear that in high school only they used my name. You know who did it more than other students? The teachers! The Teachers!!!! The Faulking Teachers!!!!!
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to timoteo)
quote:
Bill, I'm sure you can read the not-so-veiled subtext in the above about my displeasure with US actions over the past 10 years, but please don't try to extrapolate that into a picture of who I am or what I believe in - I can guarantee you would come to the wrong conclusion.
Thinly veiled I must say. A suite at the Emperador has been reserved for your press conference. :)
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to timoteo)
quote:
Bill, I'm sure you can read the not-so-veiled subtext in the above about my displeasure with US actions over the past 10 years, but please don't try to extrapolate that into a picture of who I am or what I believe in - I can guarantee you would come to the wrong conclusion.
Timoteo,
I would not think of extrapolating from your post above into forming a picture of who you are and what you believe in. I would just say that I think most people (Brits and Commonwealth citizens, for the most part) celebrate Guy Fawkes Day for fun and enjoyment, and, yes, I had a couple of pints of good samoan Vailima beer in celebration as well. Neither I, nor I imagine the vast majority celebrating the day, were thinking of it as a celebration of "torture" or "anti-Catholic" sentiment. Just my thoughts.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to timoteo)
quote:
The Jernigan suite I hope - I will settle for nothing less.
Timoteo and Stephen,
I regret to inform you that some months ago I had planned to go to Madrid and stay at the Emperador. I specifically requested the Jernigan Suite, but upon making my request telephonically was told by management (in a rather haughty tone of voice, I might add) that any request for the Jernigan Suite, "requires the personal approval of Mr. Richard Jernigan, Esq." It was clear that I was viewed as someone of dubious pedigree, and that this was a thinly-veiled attempt to put me off. I was even asked if I could prove a direct line of descent from Charlemagne!
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
Posts: 219
Joined: Jun. 22 2012
From: Seattle, USA
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
I would not think of extrapolating from your post above into forming a picture of who you are and what you believe in.
Bill,
Upon re-reading my post I realize I owe you an apology - I did not mean to imply that you personally would stereotype and respond in a partisan or ideological way based on what I said above. The paragraph started out as an attempt to acknowledge your expertise, which is why I used your name, and to make it clear that I knew what I said could be construed as a political statement. But in mid-sentence I deviated from that purpose and changed the meaning by trying to launch a pre-emptive strike to counter arguments based on assumptions of my party affiliation / political leanings. I should have separated the two thoughts and not linked you by name or implication to the unnamed subjects of my second thought.
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to timoteo)
quote:
Upon re-reading my post I realize I owe you an apology
No apology necessary, Timoteo. You have bigger fish to fry in trying to reserve the Jernigan Suite at the Emperador. I hope you have a more convincing pedigree than I had when I attempted the reservation.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to BarkellWH)
Messrs. Barkell and Timoteo,
If you will be so obliged to share a table in the Vega Lounge, I will see to it that The Holy Roman Emperor of the Foro is summoned from his magisterial duties to grant your respective reservation requests. Drinks are on the house. .
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to estebanana)
Dear Friends--
My man tells me he has received a request for assistance with accommodations. I would be pleased to be of help. He says that the Emperador in Madrid has been mentioned. I believe it is that rather economical hotel in the Gran Via, close to some of the guitar makers' shops?
If so, the only accommodation under my control there is a suite of rooms dedicated to the use of the young ladies who can sometimes be seen on the street thereabouts, since standards of behavior have lapsed somewhat under careless governments. Now that the cool weather is here, they--and not any of their casual male friends--are entitled to use the rooms to warm up a bit. They dress so scantily….
This is not the best time of year for southern Europe. The weather has been cool and rainy. It's not likely you would be able to use the terrace to one of the better suites at this hotel
The tourist herd has dissipated from Venice. But if you have trouble getting a table at Florian's, just mention my name to Eduardo. Back in the summer the city was still glorious.
RNJ
Images are resized automatically to a maximum width of 800px
Posts: 3497
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to estebanana)
quote:
I never get tired of the Emperador joke....:)
...nor the veils, thin though they may be.
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
It is November 6 here in Samoa, so I celebrated with a couple of Vailima beers last evening, November 5. Nevertheless, as today is November 5 in the UK, and as the sun has long since crossed the yardarm, I will close the Embassy at 5:00 PM and immediately head for a nearby watering hole to hoist a couple more in honor of Guy Fawkes Day.
And a very Happy Birthday to you, Shroomy!
Cheers,
Bill
Sounds like you are doing a Geoffrey Firmin impersonation - be careful!
Posts: 3487
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: A Toast for Guy Fawkes Day! (in reply to estebanana)
...and of course we didn't stay at the Gritti Palace. It is too expensive for what you get, and it is inconveniently located, though the view of the Canal Grande and Santa Maria della Salute across the canal are magnificent.
On our tour of Italy a couple of years ago we stayed in a hotel composed of apartments. Ours had two bedrooms, a kitchen and dining area, with a view of the local canal, all for less than a single room at the Gritti. It was two blocks walking from the Piazza San Marco. A block and a half along the way is the main gondola harbor, site of the photo.
We did make it to Florian's in the Piazza San Marco, but when Larisa's Italian friends showed up they refused to go in--too expensive and too many tourists. So we had our coffee and snacks at one of the other cafes in the Piazza San Marco.
There are some excellent seafood restaurants within a couple of blocks of the Piazza San Marco. There were few if any tourists, though the Piazza San Marco was full of them and the line to get into the Basilica looked like it would take at least an hour.
We spent an evening at a Vivaldi concert by a very good local string ensemble in the ornate ballroom of a palace near the Piazza San Marco. There were very few foreign tourists, but a lot of Italian tourists.
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread