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RE: Big favor please
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Big favor please (in reply to Escribano)
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Amidst all of the suggested possibilities and etymology of the meaning of "Una guerra sin cuartel," from housing of prisoners to lack of barracks and headquarters, from the U.S. Navy call to General Quarters to the request for "quarter" in a duel, from the metaphorical to the concrete, within both the current and historical context the expression is and has been used, I still go with "War (or "Battle" or "Fight") without quarter, i.e. without mercy." Cheers, Bill
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And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
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Date Nov. 5 2014 17:45:29
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Escribano
Posts: 6418
Joined: Jul. 6 2003
From: England, living in Italy
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RE: Big favor please (in reply to Sr. Martins)
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quote:
Bill - I still go with "War (or "Battle" or "Fight") without quarter, i.e. without mercy." No argument from me and I think that is where we are but I was further interested in the root of the phrase as etymology has always fascinated me. It's a mirror on the past. quote:
Sr. Martins - I doubt that cuartel means anything related to quarter. There is plenty of evidence that "cuartel" relates to "quarter" but it appears general opinion is divided on the etymology of the phrase. I turned to Spanish and French to reverse the logic. The translations of an English song by Led Zeppelin (from Houses of the Holy) called "No Quarter": English "they choose the path where no-one goes. they hold no quarter, they ask no quarter. the pain, the pain without quarter. they ask no quarter." Spanish "eligen el camino donde nadie va. de ser titular sin cuartel, se preguntan sin cuartel. el dolor, el dolor sin cuartel. piden sin cuartel." http://www.quaver.fm/cancion/no-quarter French "Ils choisissent le chemin où personne ne va. Ils détiennent pas de quartier. Ils demandent pas de quartier. La douleur, la douleur sans quartier. Ils demandent pas de quartier." http://les-paroles-de-chansons.com/chanson/montrer/889909/led-zeppelin/paroles-et-traduction-de-chanson-no-quarter-the-song-remains-the-same-1976/ Of course, the French "quartier" means a "quarter" or "slice" or "part of", but it also refers to a place e.g. le quartier St. Michel in Paris and it can mean a military barracks. Interestingly, this non-academic opinion supports GJ's preference of asking for liberty for one quarter of the prisoners' worth: quote:
"Voilà une expression reprise dans les films de pirates qui correspond à la réalité historique ! À l’époque, un prisonnier pouvait racheter sa liberté en payant un quartier de sa solde. Mais si l’ennemi refusait, il pouvait être traité sans quartier, c’est-à-dire être mis à mort. Ainsi, ordonner, avant l’abordage, « pas de quartier », signifiait qu’on ne faisait pas de prisonniers" This Spanish reference translates "cuartel general" to "headquarters" http://www.spanishdict.com/translate/cuartel I have also read of a quarter of a prisoner's wealth being offered for liberty as "giving quarter" in medieval times, but no references earlier than the 1400s. Some of my knowledge of this goes back to studying Shakespeare, who reworked and invented lots of words and phrases, so that doesn't always help
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 5 2014 18:50:19
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BarkellWH
Posts: 3460
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
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RE: Big favor please (in reply to Escribano)
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quote:
Then I shall become a singer and sing of the egg girl who left me for the truck driver, who was married with kids and lived next door. True story Actually, Simon, that has the makings of a novel that might be shortlisted for the Man-Booker Prize. I say that because I brought with me to read during my stint here in Samoa this year's Man-Booker winner, "The Narrow Road to the Deep North," by Richard Flanagan, an Australian author from Tasmania. The story concerns an Australian army doctor who, with his fellow Australian army personnel, was interned by the Japanese on Java and taken to Thailand to work on the infamous Thai-Burma "death" railroad (the River Kwai, and all that). It is a story of grit and endurance against Japanese atrocities and cruelty, interspersed with Japanese Haiku poetry written by a Japanese army Major. Nevetheless, at least half of the novel concerns the doctor's pre-war dalliance with his uncle's wife. It seems to haunt him, wherever he is: Getting ready to deploy to Java, during his captivity as a POW by the Japanese, and after surviving the war and returning to Australia. His pre-war moving in on his uncle's wife appears to have marked him for life. It seems a bit much to me, given what he endures as a POW of the Japanese in Thailand. I would rate the book interesting but not great. The writing is good, though. Obviously the Man-Booker committee members were very much taken by it. Anyway, your experience with the egg-girl and the truck driver shows literary promise. Cheers, Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East." --Rudyard Kipling
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Nov. 6 2014 0:00:26
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