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Flamenco and 'The Modes'?   You are logged in as Guest
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britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

Flamenco and 'The Modes'? 

Some years back I recall reading somewhere that Soleares is always played in the "Phrygian Mode".

Not having had any formal musical education I am only casually acquainted with modal music as it relates to the British folk tradition. Viz: Aeolian;Dorian; Phrygian; Myxolidian, etc.

Assuming that most flamenco is 'modal' music (is it?) - can anyone advise what popular flamenco palos are played in what 'mode'?

Won't help my lousy playing, but interested to know. . .

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 14:43:46
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

If you know what the modes are, how is it possible for you not to recognize which ones are used where?

Maybe I didn't understand your question.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 14:54:58
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

If you know what the modes are, how is it possible for you not to recognize which ones are used where?


Knowing the names is one thing; knowing - by sound alone - which one is which is something else.

My question really relates to which flamenco form is played in what 'mode'? Because I have no idea how to tell one mode from another, just by listening?

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:11:01
 
Sr. Martins

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Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

When you're playing something, don't you know which note is your tonic? That will pretty much be all you need to know... the other notes you're playing will have a relationship to this tonic, and that is... the mode.

I think it's easier and more useful (since you know the modes) for you to relate what you play (and hear) to the modes than just grabbing a list of the 4 or 5 modes used in all palos.. that will do nothing for you.


See (and hear) the modes as a consequence of what you play, not a formula for each palo.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:19:03
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

I think it's easier and more useful (since you know the modes) for you to relate what you play (and hear) to the modes than just grabbing a list of the 4 or 5 modes used in all palos..


Perhaps I should respectfully stress once again, that I only know the modes by name, not by sound!

For example: I play Soleares and Malaguenas based on the tonic chord of E major; Seguiriyas and Tientos based on A major; Granadinas based on B major; Tarantas based on F# major, etc. etc. How does that tell me what mode I am playing in?

Maybe you can identify the modes by sound alone, and hear the differences, but I can't. . .

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:38:48
 
tele

Posts: 1469
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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

e dominant phrygian and a dominant phrygian are the most common modes/scales used in flamenco. Altough sometimes there are additional notes which come from outside the mode. Most palos are phrygian/dominant phrygian but some use major or natural minor as a base

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:51:10
 
Morante

 

Posts: 2219
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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

Don´t worry about the modes, nor about self styled experts. The basic mode is a whole tone scale which you play in Soleá: E,F,G,A,B,C. This whole tone sequence is repeated in A or F# etc. It is usually referred to as Phrygian, though the name is often disputed.

Some palos, such as Fandangos (Malagueñas, Granaínas etc) mix modes for intros and falsetas with major scales which accompany the cante.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:54:08
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

I thought that "by name" meant that you knew how they are built. Knowing just the names is pointless.

I know them by sound and theory. You should study the theory behind them AND understand it before doing anything else on this subject.

Listing which modes are used where would be totally useless information at this point.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:54:17
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Morante

quote:

The basic mode is a whole tone scale


Your innacurate statements might bring even more confusion to the table.


Modes can be seen as the map for the chord progression (or smaller sequences of chords, depending on the palo) but they can also be used in a chord-by-chord fashion which might be specially helpful to analyze more modern flamenco playing.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 15:58:02
 
tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012
 

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Morante

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

Don´t worry about the modes, nor about self styled experts. The basic mode is a whole tone scale which you play in Soleá: E,F,G,A,B,C.



whole tone scale is something different. You are confusing it probably because what you have written is the E phrygian scale and it does not have b or # notes. It is same scale as Am or C only with different starting note.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 16:36:34
Guest

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

The 'modes' used say in solea in E ( no Capo/por arriba Would be
E Phrygian Dominant ( derived from A harmonic minor ) E F G# A B C D
E Phrygian ( derived from C major or A natural minor ) E F G A B C
Juxtaposed depending on rythmic placement and resolution to the Phrygian tonic

Though other tones could be added - such as D# - depending on Rythmn placement

I say derived from a western music sense but would be viewed differently from another cultural perspective I imagine ..

The letra chords are from these modes but may be considered (?) tonal in function - clarification might be needed

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 21:02:07
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

Some years back I recall reading somewhere that Soleares is always played in the "Phrygian Mode".

Not having had any formal musical education I am only casually acquainted with modal music as it relates to the British folk tradition. Viz: Aeolian;Dorian; Phrygian; Myxolidian, etc.

Assuming that most flamenco is 'modal' music (is it?) - can anyone advise what popular flamenco palos are played in what 'mode'?

Won't help my lousy playing, but interested to know. . .



Bare with me for a short mode lesson. Simply put, modes don't "go anywhere" harmonically. Keys on the other hand, derive from the modes but require a tonic to dominant relation, specifically V chord to I chord. First, mode examples:

Ionian mode...happy major sounding. at a loss for a proper song now as it is easy to confuse with songs in a MAJOR KEY which is different. Simply put, an ionian song in C can use chords like C, F, Dminor, E minor, but must AVOID ever going G7-C.

Dorian: old church modes of gregorian chant are a favorite. Modern music vamps would be songs like "So What" by miles davis, or "oye como va" by santana.

Lydian: also happy, but sort of nostalgic sounding or exotic. Simpson's theme song.

Mixolydian: happy but sort of blues and infact used in jazz and blues a lot. The song "tequilla". In flamenco we have "caballo negro" by sanlucar.

Aeolian: the minor key cousin of Ionian. In the sense some songs use this mode are confused with songs in a minor KEY, again, no V-i allowed. In E minor that means, no B7 chord. So "beat it" by michael jackson is a good example of aeolian. In flamenco we have the ending of "entre dos aguas".

phrygian: This mode is so popular in middle eastern music but function much better in it's phrygian dominant form. That being with a raised 3rd. Not to be confused with being in a Minor key, it has to not "resolve". I only hear the proper minor phrygian used in some mediterranean songs, for example in turkey or greece. None would be good examples for laymen I think. Phrygian dominant versions on the other hand are super common. Nagila Hava is a good example.

Locrian: no good exmple of it's application as it is typcially avoided due to it's root and 5th relation being strange. For sure it is effective as a dark scary mood in pieces that might go in several different directions.

So you also have interesting modes of other types of scales and have different names but I won't go into examples.

What is important is to now understand keys. Listening to Bach for example, if it bright and happy, it's a major key piece. If it is dark and sad it is a minor key piece. Within that scope, unlike modal examples as above, the music is free to venture into other territorys by changing the TONIC. THis is done thanks the V-I relation I described earlier.

Flamenco music is the same as Bach with an interesting difference. it makes use of a Phyrigain KEY, I call it spanish phrygian. That being the music allows a tonic just as the modal examples above, but can actually GO places harmonically away from that. Examples:

Alegrias: Major key
Farruca: minor key
Siguiriya/Solea: spanish phrygian key, sometimes Major key
Fandango/malagueña/taranta/granaina/etc: spanish phyrigian with modulation to relative major. Ephyrigian->C major->E phrygian for example.

Some flamenco makes use of modal ideas too, but it is not as common as the above generalizations. The spanish phrygian used in flamenco music as a key makes clever use of the flat second scale degree as a functional tonal harmony (II-I), in place of the V-I of major of V-i of minor keys in order to establish a key tonic instead of a modal vibe that goes nowhere (as in all the modal examples above).

Just as Ionian can be confused for Major keys or Aeolian with minor keys, the phrygian dominant often gets wrongly used as a description of music that is actually having a harmonic function, such as flamenco forms mentioned.

Hope that helps some.

Ricardo

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www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 22:08:19
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Hope that helps some.


Helps a whole lot.

Thanks.

More complicated than I thought. But well-explained in simple terms. . .

(Ever consider writing a book?)

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Fruit farmer, Ontario, Canada
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 22:16:37
 
pink

Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013
 

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ricardo

quote:

ORIGINAL: britguy

Some years back I recall reading somewhere that Soleares is always played in the "Phrygian Mode".

Not having had any formal musical education I am only casually acquainted with modal music as it relates to the British folk tradition. Viz: Aeolian;Dorian; Phrygian; Myxolidian, etc.

Assuming that most flamenco is 'modal' music (is it?) - can anyone advise what popular flamenco palos are played in what 'mode'?

Won't help my lousy playing, but interested to know. . .



Bare with me for a short mode lesson. Simply put, modes don't "go anywhere" harmonically. Keys on the other hand, derive from the modes but require a tonic to dominant relation, specifically V chord to I chord. First, mode examples:

Ionian mode...happy major sounding. at a loss for a proper song now as it is easy to confuse with songs in a MAJOR KEY which is different. Simply put, an ionian song in C can use chords like C, F, Dminor, E minor, but must AVOID ever going G7-C.

Dorian: old church modes of gregorian chant are a favorite. Modern music vamps would be songs like "So What" by miles davis, or "oye como va" by santana.

Lydian: also happy, but sort of nostalgic sounding or exotic. Simpson's theme song.

Mixolydian: happy but sort of blues and infact used in jazz and blues a lot. The song "tequilla". In flamenco we have "caballo negro" by sanlucar.

Aeolian: the minor key cousin of Ionian. In the sense some songs use this mode are confused with songs in a minor KEY, again, no V-i allowed. In E minor that means, no B7 chord. So "beat it" by michael jackson is a good example of aeolian. In flamenco we have the ending of "entre dos aguas".

phrygian: This mode is so popular in middle eastern music but function much better in it's phrygian dominant form. That being with a raised 3rd. Not to be confused with being in a Minor key, it has to not "resolve". I only hear the proper minor phrygian used in some mediterranean songs, for example in turkey or greece. None would be good examples for laymen I think. Phrygian dominant versions on the other hand are super common. Nagila Hava is a good example.

Locrian: no good exmple of it's application as it is typcially avoided due to it's root and 5th relation being strange. For sure it is effective as a dark scary mood in pieces that might go in several different directions.

So you also have interesting modes of other types of scales and have different names but I won't go into examples.

What is important is to now understand keys. Listening to Bach for example, if it bright and happy, it's a major key piece. If it is dark and sad it is a minor key piece. Within that scope, unlike modal examples as above, the music is free to venture into other territorys by changing the TONIC. THis is done thanks the V-I relation I described earlier.

Flamenco music is the same as Bach with an interesting difference. it makes use of a Phyrigain KEY, I call it spanish phrygian. That being the music allows a tonic just as the modal examples above, but can actually GO places harmonically away from that. Examples:

Alegrias: Major key
Farruca: minor key
Siguiriya/Solea: spanish phrygian key, sometimes Major key
Fandango/malagueña/taranta/granaina/etc: spanish phyrigian with modulation to relative major. Ephyrigian->C major->E phrygian for example.

Some flamenco makes use of modal ideas too, but it is not as common as the above generalizations. The spanish phrygian used in flamenco music as a key makes clever use of the flat second scale degree as a functional tonal harmony (II-I), in place of the V-I of major of V-i of minor keys in order to establish a key tonic instead of a modal vibe that goes nowhere (as in all the modal examples above).

Just as Ionian can be confused for Major keys or Aeolian with minor keys, the phrygian dominant often gets wrongly used as a description of music that is actually having a harmonic function, such as flamenco forms mentioned.

Hope that helps some.

Ricardo


You really know how to be most generous with your knowledge. Not an ounce of the ''know it all tosser '' syndrome.... just good ,honest info and advice.
F ekkin nice one!

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 22:39:37
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011
 

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

People often get too entangled in modes names and end up not doing anything useful with them.

It surely helps if you just take the major scale as 1234567 and then look at the modes as alterations to that scale. Instead of lydian you would simply think (and hear) 123#4567, mixolydian would be 123456b7 and so on.


Try it if you feel that you haven't quite grasped the modes.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 22:54:24
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

People often get too entangled in modes names and end up not doing anything useful with them.


Not the case with Ricardo's explanation. Ricardo gave a concise, succinct description of each. Very helpful indeed!

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 19 2014 23:11:42
 
Paul Magnussen

Posts: 1809
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From: London (living in the Bay Area)

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Ricardo

quote:

Dorian: old church modes of gregorian chant are a favorite.


Also, the vast majority of minor Scottish and Irish dance tunes are in the Dorian mode: for instance, the second tune here (The Sligo Maid).



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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 0:41:48
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Not the case with Ricardo's explanation. Ricardo gave a concise, succinct description of each. Very helpful indeed!



Obviously my reply wasn't aimed at Ricardo..
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 2:07:52
Guest

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks for the clarification Ricardo

Edit

Putting Bach together with the Phrygian tonic is a great bit of info
Cheers

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 3:47:20
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

Obviously my reply wasn't aimed at Ricardo..


No, but neither did any of your responses try to answer Britguy's original, perfectly legitimate question. Ricardo did, and with examples. Britguy wasn't looking for a disquisition on "sound and theory"; he stated he did not have any formal musical education. Ricardo demonstrated his ability to relate to anyone at any level of knowledge and answered the question. That's all that matters.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 11:07:17
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to BarkellWH

Judge yourself and have fun with that, stop bugging me and my willingness to help.

This is getting old and Iam tired of your "under the radar" personal attacks.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 13:07:11
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

Judge yourself and have fun with that, stop bugging me and my willingness to help. This is getting old and I am tired of your "under the radar" personal attacks.


Can't recall ever having made "personal attacks" against you, "under the radar" or otherwise. (And given Britguy's question and acknowledged lack of musical education, comparing Ricardo's explanation with a disquisition on "sound and theory" is not a "personal attack." It is part of the discussion.) But I'll just let this thread speak for itself.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 13:22:46
 
Sr. Martins

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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to BarkellWH

quote:

Can't recall ever having made "personal attacks" against you, "under the radar" or otherwise.


You know it as well as I do.


Wether you like my methods or not, I tried to help britguy and anyone who might feel confused by the modes. Your contribution to this thread was just an attempt to piss me off as you could clearly have praised Ricardo without even mentioning me.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 14:19:46
 
BarkellWH

Posts: 3462
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

Well, Sr. Martins, if you think my contribution to this thread was a "personal attack" and an "attempt to piss you off," I don't think you know what a personal attack is. And I assure you that I have much bigger fish to fry than to waste my time attempting to piss you off. Please do not flatter yourself by thinking my comment was all about you.

Again, this thread speaks for itself.

Bill

_____________________________

And the end of the fight is a tombstone white,
With the name of the late deceased,
And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here,
Who tried to hustle the East."

--Rudyard Kipling
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 15:12:00
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

ORIGINAL: Sr. Martins

People often get too entangled in modes names and end up not doing anything useful with them.

It surely helps if you just take the major scale as 1234567 and then look at the modes as alterations to that scale. Instead of lydian you would simply think (and hear) 123#4567, mixolydian would be 123456b7 and so on.


Try it if you feel that you haven't quite grasped the modes.


This certainly works if the player knows the fingerboard pretty well, for example how to find b7 or #4 on the neck. I recommend further that an open bass string be played always as the "1" bass like a drone, and play the other notes on the other 5 strings in order to hear the relation. Further, I recommend practing the playing/listening exercise changing modes in a specific order. For example:

Play all modes in E so you hear open 6th string bass note:
E lydian =123#4567
E ionian= 1234567
E mixolydian=123456b7
E dorian = 12b3456b7
E aeolian = 12b345b6b7
E phyrgian = 1b2b345b6b7
E locrian = 1b2b34b5b6b7

THis way you can hear the mood change between the modes (bright to dark in this case) and notice that between each change, only one note in the scale differs, so it is easier to visualize the relationships on the fingerboard.
quote:

Thanks for the clarification Ricardo

Edit

Putting Bach together with the Phrygian tonic is a great bit of info
Cheers

_____________________________

It can be very frustrating to convey the idea of phrygian key/tonic to western eared musicians that know theory pretty well. They only understand music as major or minor keys or modes. Pretty much they argue that something like Solea and Farruca are the same thing musically, it's just that solea is "hanging on the V chord in minor"... implying both must be in the key of A minor. I next try to exmplain the difference is in the rhythmic phrasing but it is a hard sell. I try to use Mozart as an example, as after Bach's time he and his contemporaties used a harmonic device called Augmented 6th chords. That would be like doing F7-E7-Am, in Farruca. The dominant F7 pulls stronger to the E7 and breifly tonicizes the E chord by spelling the F7 chord with a D# instead of Eb...making a leading tone voice that resolves to E nicely.

This device is used to pull away from A minor breifly and is exactly the type of thing we see in flamenco with Solea etc. THe difference being is rhythmically, the music ends there on the E and need not continue to Aminor interms of phrasing. It is a weaker resolve perhaps than good ol major or minor V-I moves, but functions in the world of tonal harmony none the less, and is much more than just a simple modal vamping concept because it allows all the other types of harmonic movement tonal harmony provides.

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CD's and transcriptions available here:
www.ricardomarlow.com
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 16:42:27
 
Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
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RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Ricardo

Glad someone agrees with something I said


Seriously, most of the people teaching modes on the internet haven't really figured out the thing yet.

The way to get the feel for the different modes must be done with the same tonic. Comparing C ionian to D dorian is not the way, that is just the theory to explain where the thing came from. Nevertheless, this kind of thinking is useful on the guitar fretboard not only for soloing over functional harmony or isolated (non functional) chords but also to let you break away from the awful finger "boxes" and shapes. If you understand the modes you won't need any of that.

All you need is a tonic (general, momentary, relative, whatever..) and your knowledge on the subject (ear training helps in many ways too):





This example is related to C as a tonic. If you understand all this you'll have less things to memorize and you'll figure out which mode you're playing at any moment depending on which analysis suits you best.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 16:56:28
 
El Kiko

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From: The South Ireland

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to BarkellWH

ha



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Attachment (1)

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 17:12:31
 
britguy

Posts: 712
Joined: Dec. 26 2010
From: Ontario, Canada

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Sr. Martins

quote:

All you need is a tonic (general, momentary, relative, whatever..) and your knowledge on the subject (ear training helps in many ways too):


This example is related to C as a tonic. If you understand all this you'll have less things to memorize and you'll figure out which mode you're playing at any moment depending on which analysis suits you best.


At 80 years old I know I'm not the swiftest these days. But - after several attempts to figure it out - I have to admit I don't have a clue what that fretboard diagram refers to, or how to use it?

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 19:43:05
 
Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to britguy

quote:

At 80 years old I know I'm not the swiftest these days. But - after several attempts to figure it out - I have to admit I don't have a clue what that fretboard diagram refers to, or how to use it?


lol me neither. I don't get it Rui, what/how is that used?

Wait nm, I get it............the numbers are their relation to C

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\m/
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date Oct. 20 2014 20:22:47
 
Ricardo

Posts: 15030
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Flamenco and 'The Modes'? (in reply to Leñador

The diagram is confusing because it is first position but doesn't allow for you to use any open strings. If you need that info the open strings are scale degrees 3-6-2-5-7-3, across the very top instead of letter names.

_____________________________

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