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cathulu

Posts: 949
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

guajiras modulation to a new key 

Hi, I am getting back into flamenco after an absence, and I have a question... What keys are common to modulate to in guajiras? I guess it is typically in the key of A, was wondering for example if you can add some dark energy. I recall this video by Jason where he talks about a bit of minor to really set off a happy bit.

In particular, I am thinking about Pharaon in Bmin. Getting in the Bm, G, Em and F#. Any thoughts on modulation in general and Pharaon chords in particular? If using Pharaon chords, would you pivot on Bmin, and how might you recommend to lead into the modulation and back out? ... sorry if this is stupid :^)
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2014 4:45:23
 
guitarbuddha

 

Posts: 2969
Joined: Jan. 4 2007
 

RE: guajiras modulation to a new key (in reply to cathulu

I don't know much about egyption music.

What does Paco do in his famous piece.

On the intro he uses the C natural and F over an E bass which makes the resolution to A a little sweeter.

He then goes directly to A phrygian with a Bb6+11. Straight back to A major via E9.

When the piece proper starts his first modulation is to B major which is almost absurdly bright. And he just goes there directly by starting a phrase on a B chord.

Anyway I am sure that this is all very boring. But if you do it yourself going through the piece and noticing what he does and trying to work out how it won't be boring. And should definitely give you some ideas.

If by pharaon you mean phrygian then he does this a lot

(in the key of A major) E7 Am Am/G F E7 A(major). Which is dark and dramatic in context.

I think I am saying always go to the music you like and see what the composer does and be guided by that. Doesn't matter if it is Bach or Paco, it won't match up exactly with what the books say. But it will help you make sense of what the books say by giving you context.

D.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 24 2014 8:00:48
 
cathulu

Posts: 949
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: guajiras modulation to a new key (in reply to guitarbuddha

Many thanks, I will take a look at Guajiras de Lucia and see what Paco is doing.

By Pharaon chords I was thinking of the Gypsy Kings rumba of the same name, and not egyptian music.

Thanks again.
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2014 4:23:55
 
Ricardo

Posts: 11284
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: guajiras modulation to a new key (in reply to cathulu

quote:

ORIGINAL: cathulu

Many thanks, I will take a look at Guajiras de Lucia and see what Paco is doing.

By Pharaon chords I was thinking of the Gypsy Kings rumba of the same name, and not egyptian music.

Thanks again.



It's perhaps not very good idea taste wise....but musically you just need to think about introducing DORIAN mode into pharaon tonic (Bminor) to invoke the scale/key/ of guajiras. I focus attention here on B (versus say the E minor chord going to mixolydian) because of rhythm and tonic.

meanwhile...if you think cante, we use the F# taranta type chord to harmonize the voice in the middle of the letra...and it's borrowed from pharaon

The nice things in guajiras that have a "dark" flavor, are usually D melodic minor stuff (F natural, g natural, the rest A major notes.) The second chord in Pharaon, coincidentally, can be played as a G7, and the same scale used but we call it G lydian dominant. And thus we find a specific kinship between the two songs.

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2014 8:36:04
 
cathulu

Posts: 949
Joined: Dec. 15 2006
From: Vancouver, Canukistan

RE: guajiras modulation to a new key (in reply to Ricardo

Thanks Ricardo, that was perfect. Can you link a darker guajiras if you get a chance? No worries otherwise
  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 25 2014 16:42:02
 
mark indigo

 

Posts: 2683
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
From: UK

RE: guajiras modulation to a new key (in reply to cathulu

quote:

What keys are common to modulate to in guajiras? I guess it is typically in the key of A, was wondering for example if you can add some dark energy.

Enrique de Melchor recorded Guajiras that modulated from A Major (ie. the relative major) to C# Phrygian
the recording is called "Cafetal" and it's on "Bajo La Luna" cd

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  REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |  Date May 26 2014 0:39:50
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