RE: Pedro de miguel

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RE: Pedro de miguel

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Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

quote:

Dont forget that Valeriano maintained a personal taller, where he made his own instruments by hand, a tradition carried on by his son. These guitars are in a different league.

Dont forget that their price is 5000,-€ ???

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 15:01:10

Morante

Posts: 2185
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Dont forget that their price is 5000,-€ ???

How much does a Conde cost? Only people with too much money, too few brains or mucho enchufe buy (or are given) guitars at these prices

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 17:17:43

El Rey De los Bagres

Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 29 2014

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Morante)

quote:

Dont forget that Valeriano maintained a personal taller, where he made his own instruments by hand, a tradition carried on by his son. These guitars are in a different league.

I am not trying to badmouth their guitars at least they are very transparent in how they make their guitars which for me seemed a bit brutish when taking in consideration that some of the high end "factory models" will cost you at least 3k or maybe even more is the Al Andaluse that runs for 6k made by the son or one single luthiere?

This i just me but if someone is runing a guitar factory and at the same time claiming they also make a 1a made solely by one luthiere in this case his son? Call me paranoid but I would be worried about getting a expensive "finetuned" factory guitar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 19:07:23

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El Rey De los Bagres)

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 20:22:07

C. Vega

Posts: 379
Joined: Jan. 16 2004

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El Rey De los Bagres)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Rey De los Bagres

This i just me but if someone is runing a guitar factory and at the same time claiming they also make a 1a made solely by one luthiere in this case his son? Call me paranoid but I would be worried about getting a expensive "finetuned" factory guitar.

Gee, that sounds vaguely familiar.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 20:25:29

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

quote:

Dont forget that their price is 5000,-€ ???

How much does a Conde cost? Only people with too much money, too few brains or mucho enchufe buy (or are given) guitars at these prices

....or actually knows how to PLAY.

blabla song...dingaling dong.....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 20:29:33

El Rey De los Bagres

Posts: 86
Joined: Apr. 29 2014

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to C. Vega)

quote:

ORIGINAL: C. Vega

quote:

ORIGINAL: El Rey De los Bagres

This i just me but if someone is runing a guitar factory and at the same time claiming they also make a 1a made solely by one luthiere in this case his son? Call me paranoid but I would be worried about getting a expensive "finetuned" factory guitar.

Gee, that sounds vaguely familiar.

Sorry i am new to the forum maybe this is a topic that has been discussed over and over again?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 15 2014 21:20:49

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

quote:

Sorry i am new to the forum maybe this is a topic that has been discussed over and over again?

It sure is, but you dont have to feel sorry about it. It is an important subject in the music world.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2014 6:36:41

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Morante)

quote:

quote:

Dont forget that their price is 5000,-€ ???

How much does a Conde cost? Only people with too much money, too few brains or mucho enchufe buy (or are given) guitars at these prices

I can imagine that many people dont know what 'tener enchufe' means. Its a very Spanish concept..
Its used a lot when someone gets a job. They know someone who knows someone who´s a good friend of this and that and then you get the job in front of the ones with better qualifications or those who have waited a long time.
In the flamenco guitar world , tener mucho enchufe, can be translated into: Special price for you hermano amigo. So a new 5000,-€ luthier built guitar might cost 2500,-€. There has always been different prices because Spain was and to a certain degree still is poor. So back in the golden era, pre 1990, or there about, there was a price for foreigners and a price for local flamencos. The Spanish flamencos from far away could get local price if they had mucho enchufe like being in family with this and that wellknown or local player.
I sell very few guitars in Spain. I dont accept that system. I get offered around 1000 - 1500 for a guitar which I have priced at 3000,-€.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2014 6:48:58

beno

Posts: 881
Joined: Nov. 3 2006
From: Hungary

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

no, not a conde thread again, PLEASE! STOP turning every second thread into conde.
I used to be quite neutral on this, but I slowly begin to hate it, as it totally ruins this forum.
Please go to the Conde websites, and spend your time there.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 16 2014 7:01:36

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

Im back! But no Guitar... madrid was closed on the 15th wich was the day I was suposed to go looking. something about a saint of madrid day... damn! but I eventualy got to try some guitars. tried 4 condes in the 2500-4500 range, one from felipe and three from mariano. don't mean to ofend anyone but they were not worth the money.. tried two pedro de miguel as well but i did not like the feel or sound of the two that was in my pricerange. after that I tried every thing I could lay my hand on. found a nice sounding perez, but, it did not play as well as I would like, so I Came home Without my dream guitar... what was weird to me was that I felt like the guitar around 2500-3000 was no that much better than my vicente sanchis no.25 model. granted when I got that Guitar I had to do alot of work on it to get it to play well(or better). had to lower the action on both sadel and nut myself.. but the prices are wary far apart! I payd 400 euro including case for that, far from 3000! any thoughts?

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 10:04:25

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

Señor Forastero.

Your story is not a new one. many have been through that show. And especially for 2000,-€ its not going to be easy. I think that more or less you were told so, but I think its good you tried yourself. Sometimes one just have to do things.
I still have one of the 2A guitars for sale. The sprucetopper.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 10:36:09

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

quote:

ORIGINAL: El forastero

any thoughts?

Yep. In view of store frisking ( last time in the west been 7 years ago, but I suppose there to not have not changed much ) my impression is that € 3000 will not get you much from the serial production shelf. One really needs to check out a lot of guitars to find something somewhat satisfactory, and yet will it mostly be far below of axes that have seen the individual treatment luthier-built guitars receive.

There do occure lucky strikes among factory instruments, but too rarely to count on them on your average store roaming.

The average 3-grand factory guitar tends to compare to all handmade flamencas like rubber boots to Italian cobbler shoes.

We have some really fine builders on the foro who produce guitars for that money, good enough to stay one´s cherished babe for the rest of life.

Why don´t you ensure some decent soundcard with good headphones plugged into it and check out YT for clips of the foros guitar makers?
Cances are close to 100% for you to have a guitar built by them heads above of what you would have come accross in a store, even at the disadvantage of buying unseen / unplayed over the internet.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 10:41:33

Morante

Posts: 2185
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

quote:

I Came home Without my dream guitar

Well, you were warned and informed. Still, it is always better to find out for yourself.

Come to Andalucía and I will take you to Jero in Algodonales and to Anders in Huelva. If you are lucky, one of them might have a guitar to sell you at your price for a factory model.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 21 2014 16:04:15

El forastero

Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 13 2013

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Morante)

I know,but i had the tickets so I had to go and check it out myself:-) Will save up more Cash so I can get What I want, not What I can afford right now..

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 22 2014 18:13:28

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to El forastero)

Thats very often the cheapest solution in the long run, but it can be difficult to get to the state where you actually know what you want....

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 23 2014 6:41:06

Ricardo

Posts: 14848
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to beno)

quote:

ORIGINAL: beno

no, not a conde thread again, PLEASE! STOP turning every second thread into conde.
I used to be quite neutral on this, but I slowly begin to hate it, as it totally ruins this forum.
Please go to the Conde websites, and spend your time there.

Please stop turning threads that were never meant to be about conde guitars that naturally gravitated into conde threads into anti conde thread into a "stop turning every second thread into conde" thread thread. thanks.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 25 2014 7:38:52

Anders Eliasson

Posts: 5780
Joined: Oct. 18 2006

RE: Pedro de miguel (in reply to Anders Eliasson)

This thread fortunately never turned into a conde or anti conde thread, but maybe now its the time?

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date May 26 2014 6:54:11