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Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
Excellent! Seems we have it all figured out now. Villancicos is most certainly the Navidad episode.
quote:
Los flamencólogos (15/10/1973), Sabicas (14/08/1972), Encarnación “La Sallago” (09/04/1973), Antonio de Canillas (19/02/1973), and Tras dos años (29/10/1973) seem to have existed for sure and were broadcast, as referenced in multiple sources.
It’s a real shame, perhaps they were damaged or lost? Sabicas, Sallago, and Canillas all great artists, somebody needs to find these!!! Por Seguiriyas I want to see, but Por Solea being cleaned up, I am sure whoever was doing the clean up project had the originals to work with. I notice the Maria Vargas episode had serious distortion that they dealt with the best they could so i can imagine the missing episodes might have similar damage and were not fixable.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
So I read the interview, with Valaquez, and it’s excellent. The 26 DVD thing I talked about low quality bootleg earlier, he slams them repeatedly throughout the interview. ALGO was the company he refers to that did the transfer, he says they were so bad at one point a guy is singing siguiriyas and the next somebody’s porn vid gets spliced in!!! . Like I said mediocre bootleg. Apparently he worked very hard on the DVD restoration (the 72 commercially available), and blames the “crisis” on why it didn’t get finished. He confuses the Saeta for the Tona episode split, but it’s clear there was a technical reason for combining the two programs together. He says they stoped at 100 episodes in 1973 but he was ready to do 13 more with material of Naranjto, El Sevillano, and Manolo Sanlucar. He doesn’t know what was lost or saved on the cutting room floor, but I think it’s clear at this point we have what we have here.
Sabicas was interesting. He says they shot footage, the playback audio was a problem (seems sabicas didn’t want to make mistakes on camera maybe?), all the other Rito programs are live as far as I can tell, this would have been the unique one with playback audio. He wasn’t clear if they actually edited it and aired it or not, he thinks not. A light bulb went off and I now realize that THIS is the footage they got for that episode. Somebody cuts out the interviews with Valasquez between pieces, but it’s clear they actually have the footage somewhere. I assume it never got edited down to a full episode.
Also he admits tras de dos años is a best of montage of the entire series, so that leaves only flamencologos, Sallago, and Canillas as missing programs.
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo A light bulb went off and I now realize that THIS is the footage they got for that episode. Somebody cuts out the interviews with Valasquez between pieces, but it’s clear they actually have the footage somewhere. I assume it never got edited down to a full episode.
Also this one I think - different material, but same claimed source - the TVE episode:
EDIT: More Sabicas footage including video (but not audio) cuts from the interviews - from the same uploader:
Man, this guy (the uploader - Emmanuel Gayet) has lots of old videos. Lots more Sabicas (not from this program), also Paco de Lucia archive footage 1968-1972, and others, from movies..
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
I totally missed the first time that one of the Annexes in the Benitez dissertation was a long interview with José María Velázquez-Gaztelu! However in general I was hoping that someone with more knowledge of spanish (and of flamenco history) than me will quickly find some gems in that work - glad it is paying off!
As for Sabicas: I think I will try merging these three videos into one video, following the tape code at the top. From my quick scan it seemed all code was unique, meaning no overlap between the three videos; just have to put it in the right order. The actual audio of the interview bits (and maybe some more video) is still missing, but at least we might have 23 out of 30 minutes recovered.
I will also try to do some more sleuthing to look for the other missing episodes.
I found brief text descriptions of these. The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) is/was home to William Washabaugh, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, who has a few books on flamenco and is also one of the scholars quoted by Benitez.
From that file (note Canilla is spelled as 'Canillas' in later programs, but it seems it was as 'Canilla' in this one; also no Sabicas):
ANTONIO DE CANILLA VHS-0442 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) A non-Gypsy singer from the province of Malaga.
ENCARNACION DE SALLAGO VHS-0439 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) A popular Gypsy singer who often works with dance troupes.
LOS FLAMENCOLOGOS VHS-0449 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) Manuel Cano plays guitar. Fernando Quinones and others discuss the scholarly study of Flamenco.
Also: POR SIGUIRIYAS VHS-0428 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) Tomas Torre, Camaron de la Isla, and Manuel Soto Sordera illustrate varieties of this form of cante jondo.
So hopefully some of this description will help when searching for bits and pieces of these programs on the internet.
HOWEVER! Given the reputable source of this list of videos, it would appear that UWM actually has complete copies of these FOUR episodes. All we need is someone who lives in that neighborhood to go and sign-out the VHS tapes!
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
Cool! The sabicas interview gets spliced at 3:43. Before you try to insert it into the full movie you need to find a spanish speaking lip reader! I think it’s clear they have the reels that never got edited so I am sure they never aired the episode. But who knows.
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
I found brief text descriptions of these. The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) is/was home to William Washabaugh, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, who has a few books on flamenco and is also one of the scholars quoted by Benitez.
[…]
HOWEVER! Given the reputable source of this list of videos, it would appear that UWM actually has complete copies of these three episodes. All we need is someone who lives in that neighborhood to go and sign-out the VHS tapes!
I corresponded briefly with William Washabaugh when I was reviewing one of his books for Classical Guitar. He seemed a pleasant and helpful chap. Perhaps it would be worth contacting him?
His website gives only a snail-mail address (I have an e-mail; however, since he doesn’t supply it, it might be discourteous to post it here). But snail still works (and serves to a certain extent to indicate that the writer is serious).
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen
quote:
I found brief text descriptions of these. The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) is/was home to William Washabaugh, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, who has a few books on flamenco and is also one of the scholars quoted by Benitez.
[…]
HOWEVER! Given the reputable source of this list of videos, it would appear that UWM actually has complete copies of these three episodes. All we need is someone who lives in that neighborhood to go and sign-out the VHS tapes!
I corresponded briefly with William Washabaugh when I was reviewing one of his books for Classical Guitar. He seemed a pleasant and helpful chap. Perhaps it would be worth contacting him?
His website gives only a snail-mail address (I have an e-mail; however, since he doesn’t supply it, it might be discourteous to post it here). But snail still works and (serves to a certain extent to indicate that the writer is serious).
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
Can’t find por siguiriyas on youtube. I assume it’s the same deal as Por Solea where the narrator wants to focus on lyrics and says them before each letra is sung. I did find the Camaron siguiriyas from it though:
Seems this goes after the buleria and before the Tangos, in case anyone wants to watch in sequence.
Also I watched two youtube only shows. Moreen silver marrurra....not as bad as I thought she’d be lol. Pies de Plomo... great singer but there are no interviews... I feel it’s not the complete episode, only performances. Both of these have distorted audio.
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
Encarnación Marín "La Sallago" passed away in 2015, so there were a few special programs and tributes in her honour around that time.
One of them - "Especial La Sallago" - seems to show the first 12 minutes of her 1973 Rito episode. Unless it is footage from the two Saeta programs (or from other programs shown on TVE), which Ricardo would be able to tell quickly.
If you look at the roughly 12 minutes of archival video that these guys let play, from 47:54 to 1:00:00, does it look like footage you have not seen in the Saetas, and therefore from her own Rito episode?
As for the rest of the program, I think they just loop Saeta footage while chatting.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
Yes those clips with Manolo Sanlucar are part of her program. Good find! Hopefully the full thing will turn up eventually. The Conde Blanca guitar he used with lebrijano too, sounds great.
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
Speaking of guitars, I was surprised to see on "Doblan Campanas" that Paco de Lucia was playing a Ramirez blanca. Both the headstock and the rosette match my '67. Of course the headstock has remained the same since at least 1950, and the rosette is one of several used for decades.
Posts: 14801
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Richard Jernigan)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Richard Jernigan
Speaking of guitars, I was surprised to see on "Doblan Camanas" that Paco de Lucia was playing a Ramirez blanca. Both the headstock and the rosette match my '67. Of course the headstock has remained the same since at least 1950, and the rosette is one of several used for decades.
RNJ
Since he never used it before or since this event that I have noticed, I half suspect the guitar might have belonged to one of the cantaores. In any case I always loved this video beacause years ago the Internet warriors used to say Conde was hype due to paco’s use of them....so I would point to Rito that almost EVERY tocaor old or young was sporting a Conde in the series EXCEPT for Paco, ha!
Posts: 3430
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ricardo Since he never used it [the Ramirez] before or since this event that I have noticed, I half suspect the guitar might have belonged to one of the cantaores. In any case I always loved this video beacause years ago the Internet warriors used to say Conde was hype due to paco’s use of them....so I would point to Rito that almost EVERY tocaor old or young was sporting a Conde in the series EXCEPT for Paco, ha!
From the mid-'70s through the early '90s I worked in Europe a fair amount. On the way back to the USA I would usually stop off in Madrid and make it to the guitar shops: Ramirez, Contreras, Bernabe, Manzanero, Conde.
I don't remember ever encountering a flamenco player in the first four--though the first two usually had a first class blanca or two in stock--nor do I remember ever running into anyone except flamenco players at Conde's Gravina 7 shop, nor did I ever encounter another guiri there.
Each of those four shops had showrooms and display cases. Arcangel Fernandez and Vicente Camacho did not. Camacho seemed to enjoy putting down his tools and chatting for a while, but Arcangel and Barbero hijo seemed not to be interested in any distraction from building.
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
quote:
I found brief text descriptions of these. The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) is/was home to William Washabaugh, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, who has a few books on flamenco and is also one of the scholars quoted by Benitez.
I’ve now written to William Washabaugh to solicit his help.
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Paul Magnussen)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Paul Magnussen
quote:
I found brief text descriptions of these. The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee (UWM) is/was home to William Washabaugh, Professor Emeritus of Anthropology, who has a few books on flamenco and is also one of the scholars quoted by Benitez.
I’ve now written to William Washabaugh to solicit his help.
Sorry about the delay, I’ve been really busy.
Paul, thank you so much!
Because the "Por Seguiriyas" episode showed up at the RTVE website, we are down to just three episodes that we are seeking from the UWM collection:
ANTONIO DE CANILLA VHS-0442 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) A non-Gypsy singer from the province of Malaga.
ENCARNACION DE SALLAGO VHS-0439 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) A popular Gypsy singer who often works with dance troupes.
LOS FLAMENCOLOGOS VHS-0449 (Rito y Geografia del Cante) Manuel Cano plays guitar. Fernando Quinones and others discuss the scholarly study of Flamenco.
Posts: 1805
Joined: Nov. 8 2010
From: London (living in the Bay Area)
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to kitarist)
I’ve now heard back from William Washabaugh. With his permission, I post his response (in part) below:
Hey Paul,
Great to hear from you. I'm glad to see that you and the other fellows are continuing these investigations into the Rito series.
The history of the reproduction of the series is complex and checkered. Brook Zern, of course, knows all the original details, having been instrumental in exhuming the series from the RTVE vaults. But José María Velázquez has also figured prominently in this history, having put up with the boneheaded operations of Alga Ed. and then having managed the transfer of two thirds of the programs to DVD with English subtitles in the 90s.
Yes UWM has 99 programs on videotape, all of which we received thirty years ago, thanks to the generosity of Brook and Columbia University. The one program that we know existed but which is not included and was, evidently, never aired, is Tras Dos Años (it was scheduled for Oct. 29, 1973). There were two programs devoted to soleares, originally aired on Nov. 27, 1971 and Dec. 4, 1971. The program on Antonio de Canillas was aired on Feb. 19, 1973.
All these details are listed on pp. 140–3 of my Flamenco: Passion, Politics, and Popular Culture, along with general comments distilled from my interviews with Mario Gómez, Pedro Turbica, and José María.
So now the only ones still remaining at large are the Los Flamencologos and Sabicas episodes, though I think most of the Sabicas episode I can string together from fragments.
RE: List of "Rito y Geografía&... (in reply to Ricardo)
Both Antonio de Canillas and Encarnacion La Sallago must have been uploaded earlier than 25. September because I watched them both in the middle of September. RTVE has radio program Nuestro Flamenco presented by Mr. Velázquez-Gaztelu himself. If you guys don't know it, you should check it out. Pretty cool stuff.
Finally had a chance to watch, I’m sure that was significantly cleaned up... you can tell because there are no lines running through the image, someone had to go and fill those in. Might have not made it to DVD for two reasons...1.he does Canario malagueña already in the malagueña episode, and 2. Peteneras! I fast forward through sh1t!!!
I love this guy’s singing though, and the malagueña de chacon he starts with is essential, I don’t think that was in the malagueña or levante episode and should be studied along side of those performances. My favorite part was at 10:00 with the cute chicks dancing and it’s intercut with idiot tourists trying to dance rumba. Man nothing has changed at all!
Printable Version
. Like I said mediocre bootleg. Apparently he worked very hard on the DVD restoration (the 72 commercially available), and blames the “crisis” on why it didn’t get finished. He confuses the Saeta for the Tona episode split, but it’s clear there was a technical reason for combining the two programs together. He says they stoped at 100 episodes in 1973 but he was ready to do 13 more with material of Naranjto, El Sevillano, and Manolo Sanlucar. He doesn’t know what was lost or saved on the cutting room floor, but I think it’s clear at this point we have what we have here. 
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