Welcome to one of the most active flamenco sites on the Internet. Guests can read most posts but if you want to participate click here to register.
This site is dedicated to the memory of Paco de Lucía, Ron Mitchell, Guy Williams, Linda Elvira, Philip John Lee, Craig Eros, Ben Woods, David Serva and Tom Blackshear who went ahead of us.
We receive 12,200 visitors a month from 200 countries and 1.7 million page impressions a year. To advertise on this site please contact us.
Indeed Stephen....and also the odd ''Easter bunny'' in the last couple of weeks! Some would wonder how it is possible. My answer.......''welcome to the warren of joy! ''
Now THAT is great tone. And the picados are rediculous..
He remains my ''all time'' favourite player. Always go back to him and would love to have just a smidgen of his tone in my playing.......such a talent!!
I don't like his compositions so much, kind of cliche/cheesy, but his technique is flawless
Some of his work is that way granted, but his tone is just amazing....... the piece I posted above is quite stunning to my ear. I would love to see him live. I'm sure you would have seen this before?...........
Yeah that is a great performance. I don't mind people playing Paco falsetas as long as its perfect as rafa's performance is. Its just a taste in music, I just feel like he doesn't excite me enough on a musical level.
That's totally fair and I wouldn't dream of trying to tell you what you should or shouldn't like......
Yeah I actually feel bad even posting my thoughts, who cares what I think! haha I think its healthy to have a good argument and not make it personal, unfortunately this is almost impossible, one wrong question/opinion and its all guns blazing. I would of course without a moment's thought buy a ticket to one of his shows, still one of the best.
Thank you for the pointer. Very yummy, whether playing, instrument or studio work. Unfortunately it didn´t let me listen to its end ( connection interrupted). I liked the arrangement of the company a lot. And what the recording is concerned, it reminds me of the fetishist that I am for the sonics of this heaven sent instrument. For me it really makes for half of the passion, sharing with the other musical aspects like playing / touch, composing et al.
Sure would I put this take in the stereo and enjoy it!
I would love to see him live. I'm sure you would have seen this before?...........
I hadn't and I really enjoyed it, first time I've seen him in a semi serious performing vid (I don't count the MTV).
But I am going mad trying to place that classical Waltz quote (briging the Diego Del Gastor to the Rio de la Miel). I have a strong memory of something really lush and Russian sounding like Borodin but just cant place it.
Anyone wan't to put me out of my misery ?
Anyway it is reassuring to see a top performer spelling out his view of the evolution of and surprising roots of falsetas in such a witty way.
RE: Get this up ya...... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
quote:
I hadn't and I really enjoyed it,
Me too, thanks for that. Que mostro!
quote:
But I am going mad trying to place that classical Waltz quote (briging the Diego Del Gastor to the Rio de la Miel). I have a strong memory of something really lush and Russian sounding like Borodin but just cant place it.
Anyone wan't to put me out of my misery ?
If you mean the one that makes a fleeting appearance at 8:10, it's Smetana, from the Moldau/Vltava. Nicely cheekily done. Tune at 1:08 here:
Additional trivia: I thought that the tune of Hatikvah was borrowed from the Moldau, but internet sources inform us that both those tunes adapted a 16th century Italian original, La Mantovana.
If you mean the one that makes a fleeting appearance at 8:10, it's Smetana, from the Moldau/Vltava. Nicely cheekily done.
Additional trivia: I thought that the tune of Hatikvah was borrowed from the Moldau, but internet sources inform us that both those tunes adapted a 16th century Italian original, La Mantovana.
Thanks, that tune has been going round and round in my head and I just couldn't place the composer, Smetana makes sense, I thought it wasn't quite Tchakovsky and it didn't really sound like Rimsky Korsakov and it definitely wasn't Austrian so I then tried Sibelius (great Waltzes by Sibelius) but Smetana never came to mind. And after an hour with google and youtube combined I was very frustrated.
My girlfriend tells me she has seen an app that I could whistle the tune into and it would have a stab at identifying it. But I spent about two hours last night banging my head on the wall so I really appreciate the info and the graciousness of the reply Estevan.
I hear minor blues in arabic pop music and in South American music so I guessed it came into flamenco from South American (is ther some kind of Piazzola quote in there at some point too ?) . And all of the Russian/Gypsy Waltzes have that iv i V i thing happening in them all over the place. But Italy ....... I guess I don't know a lot about Italian folk music.
But maybe the man with the pen gets all the credit as is so often the case. It could be a stolen troubadour melody which had been on the move and the first written source needn't necessarily be from the original composer or even in the original geographical location.
I only wished the public had a remotely close discriminating ear. Since 30 years now there are all the time pop songs being issued that take a sequence of a foregone hit and loop it in some way. Same regarding lifting of arrangements. And the masses will embrace them as if it were about musical inventions.
Just like with the current mega hit which is so totally Robert Palmer clone.
All that while knowledged folks from the recording biz told me that in USA for instance there would be discography specialists of the radio channels be checking new songs for eventual plagiatism. And allegedly they would even be pretty brisk.
I remember at school being taught a song called 'If You're Irish Come Into the Parlor' which is actually a contrafact of 'Back Home Again in Indiana'.
Is there a shame in that. Well not for Charlie Parker whose 'Donna Lee' is also written on the same changes.
The more I study harmony the more I come the this conslusion. There are only a handful of chord changes for song form and all of the others are bells and whistles.
And this is the spine on which tonal music is built. So I don't see it as a tragedy but more like a link to an imponderably old and noble tradition of worldwide music making.
Like this.... Back Home Again In Indiana(first eight bars) evolved like this (in the key of C for simplicity).
CC FF GG CC (three chord folk/pop original)
CC D7 GG CC
CA7 D7 Dm7G7 C
Most songs can be reduced to their ancient essence like this or you can work the other way to bring out coulour and to give more motion and direction. And it is as old as the hills. Handel did it, Schubert did it. Bach's double's are actually improvised alaborations on the previous movements with bar to bar exact correspondance to the harmonic scheme of the previous movement.
I think Rafael Cortes is just 'winking' at the audience members who are hip enough to know this. And the tune he chose has such an incredibly checkered past (from Italy to eastern europe to landing as the Isreali National Anthem) that it makes the joke all the merrier. Especially since he reharmonised it.
Some of his work is that way granted, but his tone is just amazing....... the piece I posted above is quite stunning to my ear. I would love to see him live. I'm sure you would have seen this before?...........
I guess as Paco isn't around to play his stuff anymore we will have to make do with others to play his music for us
RE: Get this up ya...... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
quote:
I think Rafael Cortes is just 'winking' at the audience members who are hip enough to know this.
well, maybe.... or maybe he just heard it on the radio and it stuck in his ear and found it's way into his falseta without him knowing (or caring) who it was by.... maybe someone here knows him and can ask?
RE: Get this up ya...... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
I think Rafael Cortes is just 'winking' at the audience members who are hip enough to know this.
well, maybe.... or maybe he just heard it on the radio and it stuck in his ear and found it's way into his falseta without him knowing (or caring) who it was by.... maybe someone here knows him and can ask?
Three maybes. Cool I am always comfortable with maybe.
I think Doit knows him, he could ask. Mind you few people enjoy explaining jokes since if you don't get it the first time then.... you probably just don't get it. Even I get tired of explaining them. Sometimes very tired.
If he (I assume you mean Rafeal and not Paco) heard it on the Radio then he remembered it with a tremendous amount of detail. Most people remember the gist and then elaborate to suit the harmonic scheme and their own predelictions. I think Paco maybe does this. And maybe Rafeal thought this of Paco. But maybe I am wrong , maybe sometimes and in some company the most penetrating insight is 'Not what he said'.
RE: Get this up ya...... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
quote:
Mind you few people enjoy explaining jokes since if you don't get it the first time then.... you probably just don't get it. Even I get tired of explaining them. Sometimes very tired.
I wasn't suggesting anyone ask him explain a joke.... just ask him where he got the tune from. It's not so unusual for flamenco's to put all sorts of tunes from classical or other styles of music into falsetas.
quote:
But maybe I am wrong , maybe sometimes and in some company the most penetrating insight is 'Not what he said'.
I thought you said you were comfortable with "maybe"? obviously not. I never said you were categorically wrong ("Not what he said"), you are adding that in yourself. are you really offended at my suggesting an alternative scenario, or is defensive sarcasm just your default response?
recently someone apologised on the foro to someone else and and the other person accepted their apology. You said it renewed your faith in internet communication. You might like to think about that before you reply.
RE: Get this up ya...... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
I wasn't suggesting anyone ask him explain a joke.... just ask him where he got the tune from.
It's not so unusual for flamenco's to put all sorts of tunes from classical or other styles of music into falsetas. The hard part is disguising them so the source is not so obvious, and to make them properly "flamenco".
You really don't think it was a joke ? Really ? Playing that arrangement to a German audience ?
Disguising them may or not be the hard part. But in that clip Rafeal is clearly drawing attention to them.
RE: Get this up ya...... (in reply to mark indigo)
quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
quote:
Mind you few people enjoy explaining jokes since if you don't get it the first time then.... you probably just don't get it. Even I get tired of explaining them. Sometimes very tired.
I wasn't suggesting anyone ask him explain a joke.... just ask him where he got the tune from. It's not so unusual for flamenco's to put all sorts of tunes from classical or other styles of music into falsetas.
quote:
But maybe I am wrong , maybe sometimes and in some company the most penetrating insight is 'Not what he said'.
I thought you said you were comfortable with "maybe"? obviously not. I never said you were categorically wrong ("Not what he said"), you are adding that in yourself. are you really offended at my suggesting an alternative scenario, or is defensive sarcasm just your default response?
recently someone apologised on the foro to someone else and and the other person accepted their apology. You said it renewed your faith in internet communication. You might like to think about that before you reply.
I am not offended Mark I am tired of you. I have suggested that you think a bit more about your own motivations and try and be less concerned with mine and indeed with me in general.
You must be aware that I am not enjoying interacting with you. I have done all I can to let you know that and as my patience has worn thin I have grown less and less polite tried to avoid posting on certain subjects and generally tried to keep out of your way.
I don't think that you treat everyone this way which is why I haven't called you a troll. But mostly I think you are deliberately annoying me. And if it isn't deliberate then perhaps I am not the only one who should be thinking a little more before posting.
Printable Version
New Messages
No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages
Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages
Locked w/o New Messages
Post New Thread