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For a few years I've been using false Guitar Players plastic glue-on nails (due mainly to farm work damaging my real nails).
Over the past few winter months I've been in and out of hospital a couple of times (nothing too serious) and during that time my plastic glue-ons fell off and were not replaced. As I was too weak to play seriously anyway, it did not matter.
A few weeks ago I started playing again; using the weak little 1/32 inch stubs that remained of my natural nails. Way shorter and softer than my plastic glue-ons. In order to play at all I had to readjust my hand/finger relationship to the strings. Using much closer and shorter movements.
To my surprize; my arpeggios - particularly the p i m a m i ones - sounded much cleaner, and better timed, than before. Same with picado. Tremolos were not as good, and could not use my ring fingernail stroking upwards ( like in old-style seguiriyas and tarantas remates).
But, the big surprize was just how clean and crisp the arpeggios sounded. And my classical playing seems to sound much better, too. Nicer tone quality. . .
Now my question is; why is this?
A- because the nails (flimsy stubs) are shorter, and more flesh is contacting the strings, or:
B - because I'm using my natural nails instead of plastic glue-ons?
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
Some manage otherwise, but in general you can say that for a lush tone you need lots of flesh only finished by a tad of nail. Shorter nails also support well dosed planting and from there more control.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
I agree with both answers. It's amazing how short nails can be and still provide everything you need.
I'd guess also that the tremolo will adjust. Arps and tremolo are the same movement. Tremolo can feel a liitle 'exposed' (at first) but the practical benefits of using short nails outweigh maybe a little awkwardness, at first, compared longer nails.
I think the ring finger will also 'get used' to the feel and reappear as strongly as before.
I hold a file against the strings and 'play' a little, before final buffing. It seems to get the 'goldilocks' feel ( where the resistance and ability to glide through offer the easiest feel).
(Long nails are perfect, by the way, for people who prefer them. No doubt there are no right/wrong answers, but short are much easier to maintain.)
Artificial plus long is profoundly different to natural short. Everything will adjust of its own accord.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
I went through something similar wherein one day i accidentally filed my nails too much and ended up pleased with the results especially where arp's are concerned so now i keep them to the length that is about equal to the tip of the finger.
That being said that does not apply to pulgar which i like having significantly longer than the other nails in order to hit those 'graphic tones' as it were.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
I have very strong nails but I prefer them to be short. I was fortunate enough to attend a masters class in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, in 1966 with the classical guitar master Manuel Lopez Ramos. He insisted that all students file nails quite short so that we could choose between using the nails OR finger tips to produce selected tone as the compositions demanded. I prefer to use just the callused side of my thumb (instead of nail) as it is so powerful with apoyando strokes. The only movement less prominent, as compared with using the thumb nail, is the up stroke of alzapua. Just my humble opinion.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to Robug)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Robug
I have very strong nails but I prefer them to be short. I was fortunate enough to attend a masters class in San Miguel de Allende, Mexico, in 1966 with the classical guitar master Manuel Lopez Ramos. He insisted that all students file nails quite short so that we could choose between using the nails OR finger tips to produce selected tone as the compositions demanded. I prefer to use just the callused side of my thumb (instead of nail) as it is so powerful with apoyando strokes. The only movement less prominent, as compared with using the thumb nail, is the up stroke of alzapua. Just my humble opinion.
Maestro Ramos was a patron and great friend of ours. I attended several of his master classes and had several dinner parties for him at our home and shop. I think he moderated his opinion about nails late in life and became more tolerant of different opinions regarding technique. He was a wonderful man and we miss him.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to jshelton5040)
Greetings John, I cannot tell you how pleased I am to find someone familiar with the Maestro Ramos. The month I spent in that small mountain town in Mexico has been one of the highlights of my life. The Maestro rented a villa there and eight of us would meet with him every morning (Monday through Friday) and work collectively and individually. Midmorning, we had coffee and sweets and then more work. At noon, we would go for a nice lunch, then siesta, then practice (we used Segreras instruction books for techniques etc., Segovia's 24 scales, and then individual pieces), then dinner, then practice, practice, practice. If one could choose a life from all others, I would have chosen just to stay there and be his student in that exquisite paradise of a small town. When one of the students commented the workload was large, the Maestro simply smiled and said "The nights are long". I have had a long, very experience-rich life but that month stands out.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
Congrats. You are about to enter the sacred circle of the octogenarians. My nails are tissue thin and will break by scratching my head. My left wrist seems to becoming arthritic resulting in too much pain to play. I am taking biotin to improve my nails and resting my wrist in hopes it will somehow recover. Advanced age is dealing with the slow degradation of the body. But it's better than extinction
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to aeolus)
quote:
Congrats. You are about to enter the sacred circle of the octogenarians. Advanced age is dealing with the slow degradation of the body. But it's better than extinction
Yes, by Christmas I'll have turned 80 (If I make it that far?).
Hard to believe, that I can clearly remember the bombs exploding in 1940. . .
And dealing with the 'slow degradation of the body' (not so slow in my case) is not easy, either.
Following two recent urological operations within three months, my nails are not great, and a sharp arthritic pain in my left index finger makes playing good barre's very hard.
But, I still manage to excersize every morning, swim three times week and looking forward to starting work down at the farm next week. (And fishing opens in two more weeks).
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
quote:
ORIGINAL: britguy
quote:
But it's better than extinction
I'm beginning to wonder?
Guess he´s right. Last night there was a former talkmaster on TV who while jogging in the woods had fallen clinically dead for 8 minutes. ( Luckily in company of her husband who managed to revive her.) Stuffed with amazingly accurate memories on the whole accident, she stated that her abscence was a mere black nothing, just as I expect it to be. ( Unfortunately, yes, but soberly estimated.)
That´s what there´s to be expected as most likely ( while those colported `after-life´experiences with calmness & light, etc. are for most explained banally by neuorologists).
From there, with life potentially as a miniature flash of rich sensation and opportunity, nested in an infinite plain nothing, we better take chances on the here and now to be benefitting and beneficent. Instead of being careless and bovine, with a fancy of decepting some judge somewhere and going on with an other life where one could then finally work on getting better.
There is that one and only chance, so it quite seems, and the quality of it autonomous. Who wants to be smart with cheating in mythological games, will only waste himself as underdeveloped fool.
Posts: 15641
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to Ruphus)
quote:
From there, with life potentially as a miniature flash of rich sensation and opportunity, nested in an infinite plain nothing, we better take chances on the here and now to be benefitting and beneficent. Instead of being careless and bovine, with a fancy of decepting some judge somewhere and going on with an other life where one could then finally work on getting better.
Good god man, if what you say is true, then it must be time to give up on that ridiculous lawsuit, move to California to enjoy that last fleeting years of sun, waves, tanned girls, guitar on the beach, and let your poor dogs frolic in the sand.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to Ricardo)
Ricardo, you are describing my present life almost perfectly (I don't have a dog). I live in paradise, perfect climate, wonderful fresh fruits, days devoted to a wonderful woman, music, philosophy, and hiking. My only regret, I didn't do this 30 years ago. Afterlife? Who cares. Peace and happiness from the Panamanian Highlands.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
quote:
Yes, by Christmas I'll have turned 80 (If I make it that far?).
Why, just a youngster. I'll be 82 in July. No health issues, but no question the old body is showing its age. What is worrisome if the present trend continues, I'll be a basket case at 90. I just received a box of 5 20ga shells #3 buckshot. My exit strategy if I have the nerve.
Posts: 3484
Joined: Jan. 20 2004
From: Austin, Texas USA
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to aeolus)
quote:
ORIGINAL: aeolus My exit strategy if I have the nerve.
A friend told me his mother hid away a bunch of pills as her exit strategy. Problem was, her memory got so bad she couldn't remember where she put them. She spent her last few years lost in the fog.
I tend to keep my nails fairly short, but not super short. It helps a little with speed. But if I let them get just a little longer, after I get used to them my flamenco tremolo improves, and the tone quality improves greatly on my most expensive classical. For me it's a tradeoff.
Posts: 3491
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
You are in good company, Britguy. In 1902, at the age of 50, Francisco Tarrega began cutting his nails as short as he possibly could, apparently because he thought the sound produced was much more to his liking than that produced with nails. He played without nails for the rest of his life.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
I think a shorter thumbnail helps my alza pua, that and playing David Poppers Etude #1 in the High School of Cello Playing. That etude changed the way I think about my wrist in cello bowing and that in turn made my alza pua much cleaner.
I cut the thumbnail shorter and rounder to keep from digging holes in the bow frog and then worked on that etude, months ago. You can't play it unless you let your wrist go tension free and there's some kind of movement it teaches your wrist if the bow is held lightly and it bounces correclty. That just happens to make alza pua go better. When I picked up a guitar and played alza pua I tried the same feeling and looseness in the wrist an alza pua was faster a more accurate that before when I pushed harder to make it sound intense HAHA
There is also a brushing movement alza pua that is really good in combo with a shorter thumb nail.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
quote:
Any opinions out there. . . .
Yes, short natural nail on the i,m,a,x fingers is also what I prefer. When calus starts building up, the sound gets an extra point or two.
The length of the thumb is another story, it depends more on the angle you play with and how close to the strings you have the palm of your hand. I prefer a pretty long and beefy thumb nail.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to BarkellWH)
quote:
ORIGINAL: BarkellWH
You are in good company, Britguy. In 1902, at the age of 50, Francisco Tarrega began cutting his nails as short as he possibly could, apparently because he thought the sound produced was much more to his liking than that produced with nails. He played without nails for the rest of his life.
Cheers,
Bill
yeah but that doesn't work with flamenco. you need flesh+nail to get the desired flamenco sound. otherwise with only flesh, it sounds like warm poop.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to Arash)
quote:
otherwise with only flesh, it sounds like warm poop.
Like poop? This forum has reached the lowest lows. It has plumbed all the depths of hell and its minions will be unleashed when I post a photo later of some poop shaking hands with Bach.
I played with no nails for a long time. It is much more difficult than using nails, for sure. The sound is a lot better than warm poop but not nearly as good as using nails. Once the calouses appear the sound is more like hard poop and when one has to file them the sound elevates to old, crusty, brittle poop.
Nails are much much easier, and the sound is much better. (And a lot less smelly.)
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to Arash)
I never played classical with no nails.
I cut my nails in order to do tapping on a midi guitar controller. I had 'dabbled' in flamenco over the years and found that my inability to play picado had been because of a nail.
With no nails the technique was easy and natural... and it sounded like poop. But if you do it a lot you develop calouses. They are pretty hard, believe me, and there is a lot of mincing pain as well. (I got lots of blisters but played through them as much as I could.)
But, when they got to a stage where a little 'tit' was forming on the tips of the fingers and I had to file them, the sound was a lot less poopy, or 'warm poopy'. (See my previous post for a description of the sound on the 'poop scale'.)
I've been over this before here. Nails are miles easier for me but only when I filed them 'right' and after glue was applied. The glue, as Ricardo had claimed, somehow took care of the hook.
I would only ever advise no nails when one has no options left at all. But I would never have 'got' picado without accidentally playing without nails. It seemed impossible for my fingers to do it.
And I was hugely skeptical of Ricardo's claim. I knew he was telling the truth but thought perhaps there was some happenstance at play. But he was, and is, spot on.
But absolutely, having the right nails is wonderful. It gives the whole thing a very easy feel. Without nails, there has to be a lot of power going into it but with nails the relaxation produces the power and it is much more an 'effortless' pursuit.
But, yes, even craggy, hard macho calouses are crappy compared to nails.
Put it this way, if my nails all fell apart one day I would go no nails rather than the Salon route or artificial. But only maybe because I was 'forced' in a sense to do it for long enough to know there are advantages. And these things are always and only relevant to one's own tone or abilities or the 'feel' one requires.
Imagine the difference between Paco playing with nails and without nails. He would sound like poop to himself but everyone else would have been saying, if that's poop I'm cutting mine tomorrow.
The sound, or feel, one starts with, without nails, is very different to the sound, and feel, after the skin is almost as hard as nails.
It taught me to grab the strings. To get closer to the top. To concentrate on my rhythm and accents, simply because it is harder to do so maybe a little more relaxation is invoked (as one says to one's self: this is stupid).
But maybe that's why my perception is that classical and flamenco right hand techniques are wildly different, even if they look alike. I cannot imagine classical guitar doing that (forming massive calouses) as it was endless hours of picado practise that formed them. I expect there are classical players who would see apoyando as picado but for me it is not, they are very very different. And that difference can almost be 'tracked' as a function of the relative poopyness of one's calouses.
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to britguy)
I'll tell you what sounds like dog dookie, nails that are too long that go 'click, click, click click'. Everyones hands and idea of sound are different and we go through stages of long and short nails until we find out own optimum length. You really only need a 1/16th" of nail past the flesh of your finger to play flamenco, and some can even do it without nails. Right, it's called compas.
Compas without nails trumps long nails without compas.
If I had to choose between nails and compas, I'd go with compas. Compas is harder to grow than nails.
Posts: 3491
Joined: Jul. 12 2009
From: Washington, DC
RE: In praise of shorter nails. . . (in reply to Arash)
quote:
yeah but that doesn't work with flamenco. you need flesh+nail to get the desired flamenco sound.
I agree. I was just making an observation about Tarrega.
In fact, I cannot imagine a rasgueado without nails.
Cheers,
Bill
_____________________________
And the end of the fight is a tombstone white, With the name of the late deceased, And the epitaph drear, "A fool lies here, Who tried to hustle the East."
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