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again they mean the compas. THe 12 beat compas of solea might have evolved out of the 3 beat jaleo. On norman's site, what we call today "jaleos" interms of cante is listed under solea styles as "Jerez Anonomous". We also call it buleria extremeño. The point of romances and corrido being precursors of flamenco is that they, like tonas, were sung without guitar, so they say. I consider both tonas and Jaleos already part of flamenco, guitar or no guitar. Nobody on earth can say for sure what evolved first that turned into proper cante, but if you listen to the melodies you can hear the relationships. Perhaps the melodies are distorted and influenced by "modern" solea, but to my ear, the only similarity of tonas and Romances was the fact there was no guitar.
Re origin of Soleá being Jaleos, there was a story that went something like Soleá began as the "Jaleo de Soledad", Soledad (Soleá) being a dancer (or maybe a singer, I can't remember.... I could look it up....). Supposedly eventually this particular version of Jaleos got referred to as simply "Soleá" - I take all this with a large pinch of salt really! )
You are not interested, therefore all you can do is skim the surface of the culture.
Who is the arbiter of what constitutes being an "authentic" aficionado? I recognize only myself, and I think each of us feels the same way.
Let's put it this way. Not every aficionado is a "flamenco". But pretty much every "flamenco" IS an aficionado.
Not sure I'm trying to become flamenco. I'm just interested in how the people live / have lived, and what makes them flamenco. I suspect it isn't just about the music, but that there's something else they tie themselves to and the musical form of flamenco is merely an output of that. Not trying to prove anything, just seeking something deeper. Maybe it isn't there, but I get the sense that it exists.
I may need to go much deeper to get there, though. I understand that.
Sorry to not have kept up the past few days. My gf defended her phd and we took an off-the-grid weekend to explore some climbing areas in the south of Brasil. We encountered many cliffs, but we're not sure of the rock type. Seems to be a white and black rock, relatively smooth finish (not grainy or textured rough). Could be anything from quartzite to granite to marble. We're not sure, but it was nice to get away.
Some considerations with respect to your discussion:
Romances were long stories than minstrels sang in Spain. (similar to the song of Roland in France). Fragment and derivatives from these long romances can be found in flamenco romances. (Source and example in Geografía y Rito del cante) and Tonas are not exclusive from Andalucía. For example, in the north of Spain you can find Tonás Asturianas or Cantrabras.
3/4 is the most usual Rythym in Spanish folk is also extremely rich. And (I do no remember now where I read, but from classical musicians) about how it could it turn into soleas o seguirillas compás with their hemiola structure. Jaleos were in the folk at the same time than Siguirilla (with 12 beat / 5 acents) and before soleá . It is true that they are likely from andalucía and extremadura, but I hear other spanish folk that are happy 3/4 that trends to turn into a hemiola.
IMO there are two specific characteristic of flamenco: Andalusian candence is one of the most important musical ingredient that you can't find in the other Spanish folk and the so tragic sense of ancient Tonas and siguirillas is the most important lyric element respecting other Spanish folk.
With respecto to existing Flamenco trees are quite contradictories in ancient palos. Solea or Siguiriya are a very special mixture that come up in within specific enviroments of Andalucía and specific social clases and is not really spread in all Andalucía, but Spanish culture was part of these enviroments. For example, what is exactly call Spanish Gypsy culture is Spain? The gypsies of andalucía mixed probably with other outcast groups (moorish, slaves and jewish), also in a very specific conditions.
IMO, theories about flamenco are prrety evolutionary and naive. That is very good for professional flamenco experts (writters, autorithies, etc) which likes treating flamenco as a kind of classical music where illiterated and outcast people could behaved like Joseph Haydn in the choir of Hainburg. But they do not consider possible simply disrruptions that could carry out by genial people like Paco de Lucía or Enrique el Mellizo about which we do know anything and when canones where not established.
Soleares could start in a bad drunkeness of an good anonymous singer ...
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