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Posts: 1943
Joined: Dec. 2 2006
From: Budapest, now in Southampton
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
I use a Ramirez FL2, estudio model, but a very good, balanced instrument, excellent for accompaniment mainly. As far as I know, Max (Bursche) has used a pretty good Ramirez and he sounds awesome with it. Manolo Sanlúcar used to perform with one as well. They're good guitars, but probably in the same price range better options exist.
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
I have a friend in London who went to Madrid to choose his Ramirez, a blanca with pegs. I have played it and I was impressed. Perhaps there are guitars which might sound a little better, but few which are better made, an aspect which is often forgotten.
Posts: 1767
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
Played a few Ramirez blanca. Sounded pretty old school. i liked them. The playability was okay. For the same money I could once choose between a Ramirez blanca and a Jose Lopez Bellido, and choose for the last one. The playability was much better from the Jose Lopez Bellido.
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
quote:
Played a few Ramirez blanca. Sounded pretty old school. i liked them. The playability was okay. For the same money I could once choose between a Ramirez blanca and a Jose Lopez Bellido, and choose for the last one. The playability was much better from the Jose Lopez Bellido.
really ? but about the sound wich was better ?
I have a jose lopez bellido negra and it's easy to play ,it's true. But i want to change it for a blanca .
Posts: 1767
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
The sound of the Bellido I liked more too. The sustain was longer from the Ramirez, and the Bellido was more dry. If you want a nice blanca look for an Anders Eliasson. The playability / sound is superb.
There is still a Jose Ramirez. He's Jose Enrique Ramirez (hijo), one of the twin sons of the late Jose Ramirez IV. He is known as Enrique. He's very involved in the business that is under the supervision of his aunt Amalia Ramirez who is the sister of Jose IV. Enrique's younger sister Cristina is also with the family firm. Cristina is primarily involved with the administrative end of things while Enrique is more of a "hands on" type.
All of the "professional" models listed on the Ramirez website www.guitarrasramirez.com are made in their own workshop in Madrid by a team of six or so skilled workers and a few underlings doing some preliminary pre-fabrication work. The finishing work is farmed out but everything else is done in-house. They make a total of about 140 instruments annually. Their various student models, etc. are all outsourced to several different manufacturers but they are supposedly set up and adjusted in the Ramirez shop. The entire Ramirez operation is small totaling less than twenty employees.
The current "real" Ramirez flamencos are still very nice guitars but, like most new Ramirez instruments, somewhat overpriced. They really haven't changed over the years. As one poster said, they are kind of "old school" but I happen to like that type of guitar. I have an old one, a 1963 example with pegs, that's very cool. It may not have the volume or punch of some newer guitars but for traditional stuff it's great fun to play.
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
quote:
The "real" current Ramirez flamencos are still very nice guitars but, like most new Ramirez instruments, somewhat overpriced. They really haven't changed over the years. As one poster said, they are kind of "old school" but I happen to like that type of guitar. I have an older one, a 1963 example with pegs, that's very cool. It may not have the volume or punch of some newer guitars but for traditional stuff it's great fun to play.
Maybe you need to be aware that there is no "Jose Ramirez" any more.
I think most 'Ramirez' guitars today are made by other nameless luthiers, working from their own shops, under the 'supervision' of Amalia Ramirez.
Jose V on the right. Amalia also builds guitars but in his book Things about the Guitar Jose III wrote she was given a tryout in the shop but was relegated to the business end of things. But she rules the roost now and is indefatigable promoter of the mark. the thing of it was in the 70s Ramirez had no competition to speak of. I don't think the shop will ever be on that plane again.
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Posts: 15506
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
quote:
ORIGINAL: el carbonero
Hello,
I wonder why the pros dont use the ramirez blanca ?
Are there a good guitars for flamenco ?
Well, don't know if you heard of these guys, but these Pros seem to like them just fine for flamenco:
And this guy just went with a Ramirez 1A classical with tap plate and low bridge:
I will say they are not quiet guitars, tend to be louder than Condes. Overall decent sound, but I for one don't care for the Cedar top guitars as much. However I do know of one built 1990 cedar top blanca for sale that has a great sound and feel, and would love to have it for my collection. Seriously considering it. Wouldn't trade anything I got already however.
RE: about ramirez guitar ?? (in reply to el carbonero)
Ramirez didn't start using cedar for tops until late 1964 or early 1965. Anything earlier will be spruce. They continued using spruce after the introduction of cedar and still use both today.
www.guitarsalon.com has a 2012 spruce Ramirez blanca for a reduced price of $9625. My ex-wife paid $450 in 1967 for the cedar blanca from Locker's in Philadelphia that she gave to me. It's still a great guitar…
Adjusting for inflation, the 1967 price equates to $3140 in 2014 dollars. Quoted prices on the net for late '60s-early '70s Ramirez blancas with Antonio Martinez's initials on the heel block range from about $5,500 up to $pretty silly, so the guitar has beaten inflation somewhat.
As one poster said, they are kind of "old school" but I happen to like that type of guitar.
After hearing Grisha´s GSI recording with a contemporary Ramirez flamenca, I thought they had adapted to modern characteristics. The guitar in that take sounds crisp, fast and pristine. I was impressed. ( Having been very critical about their overpriced classicals, this example was however advocating their current flamenco line.)
- Which is not to say that me would dislike the old school sound.
After hearing Grisha´s GSI recording with a contemporary Ramirez flamenca, I thought they had adapted to modern characteristics. The guitar in that take sounds crisp, fast and pristine. I was impressed.
This only serves to illustrate once again that the sound depends just as much, if not more so, on the player as the instrument.