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a real keeper
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pink
Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013
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 a real keeper
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Its real hard isn't it, wanting something.
Guitars....they just seem to queue up don't they? '' Me'',''Me'', ''Me'', ''Me'', ''Me'', they're shouting....never seen any one of my short list in the flesh but by Jupiter they're all there ,nipping, calling ,making you salivate and the short list keeps getting longer!!
I'm hoping to be in a position to treat myself to a new ''best friend'' in the next few weeks....if all goes well/to plan . I've decided to get the ball rolling and start really looking (as a couple of foro members will know, having been bombarded by my ''immediate answer'' questioning obsession!!
This purchase is a real big deal for me....its still not 100% definite ,has taken some serious cuts elsewhere in my life, and will, I'm hoping ,be a guitar to keep for life.....I am wanting to make this a real keeper.
I've been considering individually made ,luthier instruments over everything else....I'd like to own a piece of someones passion for something that has become one of my passions. I'm not desperate for new but am desperate for something that I can call mine. I'm not a wealthy fellow ,so can't really afford anything/everything... hence used is a real big option and the most likely step forward apart from a couple makers I've contacted already who make glorious guitars at a price that's achievable for me.
I'm not really sure why I've started this post....I want to share the process with strangers who know, who I hope give a toss and I guess are interested in the outcome.
Would be keen to know what you guys have done and/or will be happy to go through in your quests for the perfect guitar ( if that exists)
?
Best
pink
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Date Jan. 6 2014 19:44:58
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mark indigo
Posts: 3625
Joined: Dec. 5 2007
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RE: a real keeper (in reply to pink)
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I've never been able to afford more than one guitar at a time until recently when I have ended up with 5
Have sold one now, and got another for sale. There might be something else lurking in a case that I don't know how to get rid of....
I just can't justify having guitars sat in cases, and I can only play one at a time!
I have an old worthless beater (Yamaha classical I bought 2nd hand over 20 years ago) that I couldn't sell if I wanted to, and a cheap travel guitar
(bottom of the range Valeriano Bernal - actually amazing guitar for the price).
Buying guitars is tricky, especially buying flamenco guitars in the UK, where there is not much to choose from, not much to compare to, very few makers, and very few experienced players for help and guidance.
I have a friend a generation older than me who has been playing flamenco since about 1970. He has owned Conde, Reyes, Ramirez, Gerundino, Jose Lopez Bellido, etc. etc.
His advice? That he would not buy a new guitar even from a maker with a good reputation, because you never know how it will open up or develop, so buy second hand so [Edit] someone else has already found out for you.
That you have to try the guitar therefore goes without saying, try it out, play it, check the neck, frets etc.
The other thing he says is to buy something that you can resell if you decide you don't like it so much after a year or so. That means get something with one of those names listed above on the label!
Unfortunately that also means that non-Spanish makers are at a disadvantage according to this advice. Which is a shame, because I think it should be about the sound and feel of the instrument, not the name on the label.
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Date Jan. 6 2014 20:32:56
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Erik van Goch
Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands
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RE: a real keeper (in reply to mark indigo)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: mark indigo
I have a friend a generation older than me who has been playing flamenco since about 1970. He has owned Conde, Reyes, Ramirez, Gerundino, Jose Lopez Bellido, etc. etc.
His advice? That he would not buy a new guitar even from a maker with a good reputation, because you never know how it will open up or develop, so buy second hand so [Edit] someone else has already found out for you.
That you have to try the guitar therefore goes without saying, try it out, play it, check the neck, frets etc.
The other thing he says is to buy something that you can resell if you decide you don't like it so much after a year or so. That means get something with one of those names listed above on the label!
Unfortunately that also means that non-Spanish makers are at a disadvantage according to this advice. Which is a shame, because I think it should be about the sound and feel of the instrument, not the name on the label.
That's basically how i look at is as well. Judging guitars is pretty difficult. My father bought himself a very cheap Vicente Sanchis model 25 a couple of years ago in order to use it with extremely low action (his hands needed a very hand friendly guitar and he didn't want to risk his hand friendly Ramirez). It turned out to be a very nice playing guitar, not the best sound but pleasantly playing. Then it wend to my brother for a couple of months and recently it was returned to my father and seemed to be a totally different guitar, dull as dull can be and a real pain for the hands ass well..... last august i would not have given a dime for that guitar.
Last Christmas he handed me the guitar again after he gave it some professional love and attention (new strings, lowered action, polished, well played). It had regained it's old sound and hand wise played like a dream. As a matter of fact it totally outplayed both my Ramirez and my Conde...... obviously it's brand new strings outclassed the old ones i played myself and the action was way to low to give an honest comparison, but if i had to give a concert right then i would pick it over my own guitars. Both my Conde and my Ramirez can be wonderful...but they can also be a pain in the ass. It's a shame the action of my fathers guitar was to low because it would be a dream if guitars could feel like that always...one passage i struggle to play ever since i composed it (it's hand killing) came out like never before and for the first time ever with a painless left hand. Also for the second time in 20 years my father gave me a compliment for my left hand.
One thing that leaves to be investigated is its scale.... 64 cm seems to fit my hands very well.
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Date Jan. 6 2014 21:37:00
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Ruphus
Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010
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RE: a real keeper (in reply to Erik van Goch)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
One thing that leaves to be investigated is its scale.... 64 cm seems to fit my hands very well.
Even though without practical experience, yet convinced that standard measures are not too ergonomical for average size folks, I asked for 64 cm scale length.
Because of difficulties regarding transport the guitar is still not in my hands, but the flamenco playing builder discovered with pleasure that this scale fits himself like a glove.
I could think of scales shorter than 65 cm to be increasing their part in the range of guitars.
With the community´s very limited experience outside of standard measures, shorter scales are being said to be a disadvantage in terms of reselling ( through advertisings at least), but I guess that might be changing.
Moreover, I suppose there will be a time when folks will learn which proportions, including spacings, suit them individually best. Like with other disciplines tools, like skiing, running, etc.
... And factories could develop sizes with individual scales length and spacings for at least S, M, and L, from maybe 165 cm to 190 tall or so.
Ruphus
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Date Jan. 6 2014 23:36:34
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Erik van Goch
Posts: 1787
Joined: Jul. 17 2012
From: Netherlands
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RE: a real keeper (in reply to Ruphus)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ruphus
quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
One thing that leaves to be investigated is its scale.... 64 cm seems to fit my hands very well.
Even though without practical experience, yet convinced that standard measures are not too ergonomical for average size folks, I asked for 64 cm scale length.
Because of difficulties regarding transport the guitar is still not in my hands, but the flamenco playing builder discovered with pleasure that this scale fits himself like a glove.......
.....Moreover, I suppose there will be a time when folks will learn which proportions, including spacings, suit them individually best. Like with other disciplines tools, like skiing, running, etc.
I would love to be able to experience with both scale and spacings. I tend to believe i would very much love the smaller spacings preferred by Vicente. My conde has crap spacings, strongly varying from string to string...... 3 neighboring strings ended up being a bit closer to each other as usual and that part seems to fit me like a glove as well. When i use those measures to calculate a full set of strings i end up around the spacing Vicente is said to use. So i seem to prefer both a smaller guitar and smaller spacing. I did ask a local but fabulous lute/vihuela constructor if the crap spacing of my Conde could be altered to those measures, but he claimed re-drilling the holes was out of his reach. Replacing the bridge for a new one wasn't his cup of tea as well (maybe he considered it risky to replace a bridge on a guitar constructed by someone else). I still hope to deal with that Conde 1 day, replacing the precent spacings for the smaller ones i think i will like.
I hope to try it out with a specially prepared bridgebone, guiding/forcing the strings to adapt that spacing....when i like it i somehow deal with that badly drilled bridge itself.
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Date Jan. 7 2014 16:27:33
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flamencositar
Posts: 76
Joined: Aug. 8 2012
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RE: a real keeper (in reply to pink)
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This is my guitar buying process:
I argue and debate with myself for years before I decide on what guitar/instrument I want. Painful process... Try this one, research that one, talk to that builder or that pro... Teacher loves this type of guitar, man Paco rocks on that guitar, and that old Gitano I ran into on one my visits to Spain. He was killing it on a broom handle with a rubber band and no nails to boot.
And here is what I have come up with for the perfect guitar; A guitar that has the following builder's attributes:
Conde, Anders, CulPepper, Reyes, Castillo, old school Ramirez, Sobrinos, a dash of Navarro, maybe a Sanchis flavoring, Blackshear salting, some of the Granada builders, some Devoe love, and whole host of others that I am forgetting. If I can just get that into one blanca that some how transforms into a negra, with an alternating scale from 655 to 660+, alternating cedar/spruce top, the holy grail will be found and I can finally rest until the next round.....
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Still the body, quiet the mind, free the soul
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Date Jan. 7 2014 18:52:24
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pink
Posts: 570
Joined: Jan. 8 2013
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RE: a real keeper (in reply to flamencositar)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: flamencositar
And here is what I have come up with for the perfect guitar; A guitar that has the following builder's attributes:
Conde, Anders, CulPepper, Reyes, Castillo, old school Ramirez, Sobrinos, a dash of Navarro, maybe a Sanchis flavoring, Blackshear salting, some of the Granada builders, some Devoe love, and whole host of others that I am forgetting. If I can just get that into one blanca that some how transforms into a negra, with an alternating scale from 655 to 660+, alternating cedar/spruce top, the holy grail will be found and I can finally rest until the next round.....
I reckon I'll have me a slice of that sweet guitar pie too!!
Best
pink
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Date Jan. 7 2014 19:53:36
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