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So I measured my hands from tips of pinkies to thumbs. Both hands are around 17mm or 7". Are my hands large enough for even the 640mm, not to mention the 650?
Arm span at shoulder height about 61", but that measurement is not as accurate as the others because I did it all by myself.
I know taller (though much slimmer ;-) ) 3rd graders.
So, a regular guitar of a child's size, if they make them.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
Size is not really an issue, maybe don't get a 655 scale for sake of your own comfort but really any size should be fine. Check these kids out, smaller then you I'm sure with pretty standard size guitars and they're handling business.
Posts: 1108
Joined: Sep. 29 2009
From: Back in Boston
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
quill, playing flamenco often requires the use of a cejilla/capo which effectively reduces the length of the fingerboard so a 650mm should be ok. the thickness/shape of the neck and string spacing for many seem to be the key element. many posters familiar with the old ramirez guitars, especially classical, remark the shape of the neck had a lot to do with hand pain and not necessarily the long scale length.
the other variable to throw into this equation is technique. i was taught by a older gentleman, the father of a famous flamenco/classical guitarist, who is much shorter than me with fingers to match. he could outreach me on a fingerboard because his technique was perfect whereas i was a beginner. good technique goes a long way.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
Thank you, Keith. a person I contacted to teach me on Skype did list a capo in the class requirements but he's been busy with events so I didn't ask him what is was for.
I'm hoping I can learn the correct technique to play to make things easier than otherwise, especially via Skype.
I've been worried about this because I don't have the funds to buy a guitar and then find out it doesn't fit.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
You WILL feel like you have to stretch sooooo far and it's so hard and the guitar MUST be too big. But trust that it's just because your new and your body hasn't gotten efficient at it yet. I'm 6' tall and I felt that way at first..........well, I was shorter when I started but you know what I'm saying.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
Lenador, after I stopped , I se the wisdom of this, and I'm glad you told me this so I won't trip. If you couldn't tell, I'm a bit of a nervous nelly, but I'm working on it.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Quill
I've been worried about this because I don't have the funds to buy a guitar and then find out it doesn't fit.
It's not about the capo. Shop bought guitars are either well made or not. The phrase 'find out it doesn't fit' reinforces the fact that you are looking at things the wrong way. Seizing on the capo thing ditto. Ignoring my post the same.
If you only ever think about things you understand right away then you won't be thinking much at all.
Don't mistake my intent though. The fewer untrue beliefs you take into learning the better things will go. Size of hands is seldom a genuine issue. I have had ten year old girls getting full sized guitars and having no problem and six foot forty year olds struggling to make the same stretches. In both cases belief was more important than physiology.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
Guitarbuddha, thank you for your advice. You are right. Ironically, I wanted to get into guitar to practice giving up perfectionism and getting everything exactly right, and here I am freaking out about fit.
So I will take your advice, believe it will fit, and chill out about it. Best of all, it saves time and money trying to find a cheap beginner's guitar w/o trying to find a small one. Good thing I'm already pretty limber.
So I'll take a page from you and go with the dharma.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Quill
Hi All,
Both hands are around 17mm
I see your problem :-)
But seriously, i have no idea how to picture myself your measurement. I started playing the guitar myself at the age of 9 and i was very very small for my age. Still my father (a superb guitar teacher at both the local music school and the local conservatory) gave me a normal guitar, despite having a very small one in possession (not sure if inter-sized quality guitars were available to him at that moment of time). Still i've heard similar complains of people who turned out to have bigger hands then me. My educated guess is that it pays of more to invest in improving your technique then buying a smaller guitar, although it never hurts to try out smaller ones if you happen to find them. Maybe you can find a music shop were you can try some out (as a child my father couldn't afford himself to buy a good guitar but the local guitar shop allowed him to play on their guitars as much as he liked... he was great advertisement for the shop and later when he became a guitar teacher he bought tons of guitars in that shop like my precious Ramirez) or maybe you can find someone who is willing to lend you one. My father recently bought 2 smaller guitars from the conservatory which were not used anymore (so they did buy a couple of them in the past to be used by small children). One of them is in the possession of my 10 year old niece now. Many of my fathers adult students find it very difficult to play on a smaller guitar while my father and i seem to have less trouble to adapt. I must admit i have similar doubts about finding myself a guitar with a slightly smaller string distance between e>e'. For now you can indeed use a capo to find/adapt yourself a pleasant position if you think you need it, but the danger is you might not challenge yourself in the art of stretching and using your hands the best possible way. You'll be amazed what a refined technique and proper relaxation can contribute. Many things that killed my hands first (like stretchings and barre chords) turned out to be a lack of technique rather then having small or underdeveloped hand. Assuming a correct arm/hand/left thump position often means a world of difference. Like Keith to me a well shaped neck is more important then it's length. It's hard to tell from a distance.
Posts: 4529
Joined: Aug. 9 2006
From: Iran (living in Germany)
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
Follow the example of this dude.
...and as i already told you, don't think too much. You are going to play guitar, this is not a PhD Program in Mathematics. Just start practicing now damn it
Seriously, get yourself a standard 65 cm guitar which sounds good. You will be dissapointed with a mini guitar later, probably because of sound and even feel. More important than whether its 64, 65, 66, 67 , is your hand/body/sitting/elbow/etc. position which should be good and suitable for you and which should be taught correctly to you. So once your "skype" teacher taught you the basics, get some feedback here to see how you are doing.
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RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Quill
Erik, I guess I meant cm. Blame my American education, LOL.
I figured that out already since that matches 7":-) .... but it still leaves me puzzled what exactly you measured.... either your hands are huge or you mean the maximum span between pinky and thump tip when spreading them as far apart as possible. In that case i end up with 21 cm for the right hand and 22 cm for the left hand, which clearly shows the difference in development/specialization dude to 40 years of playing.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Quill)
Hi Erik, I spread my hand as wide as I could and then measured from tip of pinky to tip of thumb.
I wonder how much farther my hands can stretch. My body is already pretty flexible compared to most people. I hurt my hip this spring and my physical therapists had to think of new positions to stretch out my bendy body because the usual ones weren't doing the trick.
That's to say, I hope I'm not at or near my max hand stretch already.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to changue)
quote:
ORIGINAL: changue
It's what you do with it that counts.
During a fire Django Reinhardt lost the ability of 2 of the fingers of his left hand and as a result had to learn to play the guitar with the remaining 2 fingers. He did this so successfully that precent day players of his music often tend to play his music with 2 fingers as well, except his son who realizes it is not a religion but a limitation.
Obviously playing a single melody is something different as playing flamenco but you got my drift. Here is another musical giant (in real live less as a meter bud i have to admit his hands were said to have average length).
It's hard to judge your situation from a distance but i guess you'll be alright. This is the 11 year old Jeronimo
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Erik van Goch)
quote:
ORIGINAL: Erik van Goch
He did this so successfully that precent day players of his music often tend to play his music with 2 fingers as well, except his son who realizes it is not a religion but a limitation.
Obviously playing a single melody is something different as playing flamenco but you got my drift.
Some inspiring posts there Eric.
A brief note on the two finger thing. Very few players use two fingers in performance but a lot play two notes per string patterns as they are easy to make swing and allow the RH to lead. Also frequent shifting helps the swing feel. The only player who makes a point of only using two fingers is John Jorgesen who is American and not part of the gypsy tradition. He is OK but not in the top flight. All of the top players have fabulously developed left hands and if they use two fingers for a passage then it will be for very good musical reasons.
That J'Attendrai clip you posted is the only existing clip of Django playing (though it is playback not truly live he is very faifthful to his original improvisation -apparently he had an extraordinary memory-) .Far more interesting to me than the solo you posted are his intro and comping. Note the he uses all of the textures common to flamenco. Bass +chord, arpeggiation and virtuosic single line interludes. He had a great deal of harmonic imagination and gets a LOT of harmonic movement with some very clever fingering devices. SEE HERE
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to guitarbuddha)
I remember seeing a documentary were many players seemed to favor using a limited amount of fingers in melody playing (using similar techniques as Django) and that 1 guy (his son) played the same stuff using more fingers, but i might be wrong. Thanks for your input and that wonderful video, never noticed it was playback, probably only had eyes for that incredible "glissando" :-)
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Erik van Goch)
Flamenco and classical players would tend to minimise shifting and utilise all four fingers at all times.
When I first got into Stochelo Rosenberg I noticed that he fingered things differently. At first I thought that this was because he hadn't developed his fourth finger adequately. Now I realise that that was nonsense. Certain finger combinations break down at certain speeds. Almost anything can be played with any reasonable fingering upto about 160bpm. After that some LH figures break down in particular. 2343 and 432321. To reset these to the stronger fingers requires greater facility and frequency of shifting than either classical or flamenco require. But a lot of electric players favour these fingerings ie Yngwe, Paul Gilbert Greg Howe etc.
I am sure that the idea was presented in the documentary as you noted. But the interpretation offered by the journalist was shallow at best. This is often the way. Probably much easier to sell the two finger thing than put people through my explanation. D.
RE: Small Hands, Short Arms, Small G... (in reply to Erik van Goch)
I used to listen to a band called Waso (I think) when they played the Edinburgh festival. Fappy Lafertim was the guitarist. He used the fattest pick I'd ever seen (no Frankie Howard now) it was like he must have cut his turtle into little wedges. What a player he was, beautiful. Maybe like a memory of Django.
Quill, don't be telling these sad sacks you're voluptuous. But they're all correct. Some big guitars feel easy, some small guitars are unplayable, and vice versa.
The better the setup the easier it is to play. A decent flamenco guitar is miles and miles easier to play than a decent classical. It's fuzzy in the middle (Frankie's at it again - blame Arash, it's all his fault.) but it's not just a little easier, believe me it is a big difference. The best of them may sometimes be indistunguishable but at the lower end (jeezus) you at least have a chance for a nice action. All the size stuff, as these guys point out, is a red herring. The sound as well, in my opinion, unless it's really unbearable, isn't important but tuning is paramount, above all else. You must get advice. I bought a guitar from Orson here and trusted his word and judgement. I would rather try a thousand but it's too much work. You will not get a bum steer from anyone here, except Buddha, but it's random (like me) and he means well. (Just kidding Buddha)
If you are really serious about learning flamenco get a flamenco guitar. The very very best classicals 'play' 'like' flamencos (for me, if they do not then they are not the best, whatever they cost).
And use a capo. The easier the better. I guarantee that if you learn on a hot setup you'll be able to play on any nylon string guitar, almost as easily. I say almost because I have been handed instruments that have actions and tuning fit for a Spongebob score.
Read Ricardo's stuff on nails. Re-read it every now and again. It's vital and can derail a lot of stupid roadblocks. If anyone tempts you with exotic nail shaping strategies tell them they are Satan and they should get behind thee.
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