Living and Learning In Andulasia

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withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

Living and Learning In Andulasia

How realistically possible is this ? Let me explain a little more about my situation.

I'm 22 years old from Australia with no prospects of career at the moment, i had these prospects of starting my own business in a field that was heavily influenced by my parents but i eventually came to realize that i would end up depressed and full of aggression if i continued to peruse that life.

I am planning on going to Europe next year , one way ticket specs its possible that i may be able to obtain a EU passport due to my Heritage.

I have some money saved that should be able to keep me over their for a year at the minimum though typically i would like to prolong my stay surviving off as least as possible, I have relatives in the Balkans though don't know anyone in Spain.

I'm keen on traveling to Andalusia , I'm even more keen on meeting some people in the flesh who actually know what Flamenco is much better than myself.

Is their a realistic chance of a foreigner being let in within the cultural flamenco circles as a friend and fellow enthusiast of the art form, or is the best you could hope paying for lessons by the hour?

I really want to learn, i'm willing to dedicate a lifetime to it from where i stand right now and i feel as if i should go to the Source being Andalusia, but i'm not sure what to expect when i go there.

Can anyone share experiences or anything they may know about foreigners wanting to learn/be around Flamenco's in Andalusia whether it be Gitanos or Spaniards.

Thank you

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 21:51:26

bursche

Posts: 1182
Joined: Jul. 19 2007
From: Frankfurt, Germany

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

quote:

Is their a realistic chance of a foreigner being let in within the cultural flamenco circles as a friend and fellow enthusiast of the art form

If you're fluent in Spanish there is

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Visit me on Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCRaGz6Lf-Uz0HxUv-dGQFLQ

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 21:54:26

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

What if i learn whilst over there .. I dont know how to speak Spanish at all but im pretty good at reading things based off Body language , tonality and facial expression.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:00:23

Sr. Martins

Posts: 3079
Joined: Apr. 4 2011

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

Maybe you should wait a couple of years. The situation over here isn't that good right now.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:01:51

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

first of all , you really need money to do all that !! second, you must be able to speak and understand spanish well enough to understand fast spoken and broken spanish in andalucia.
chances of getting a job in spain or even europe in general are very low especially for young people, its economic crisis

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:03:00

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

quote:

I dont know how to speak Spanish at all but im pretty good at reading things based off Body language , tonality and facial expression.

doesnt really work that way.. its not gonna take you far..

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:05:28

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

Like everyone else mencioned above it´s quite important to speak Spanish and the situacion over here is VERY bad right now! There is no work and the work available is very badly paid, social rights are being cut very severe and i´m finding it very dificult to get to the end of the month So if you don´t have savings this wouldn´t be a good moment to take a chance right now. But if you want to take the risk and willing to learn or allready speak the language there are enough places where you can learn this beatifull art!
If you decide and need some direccions, myself and i´m quite sure many more people on this foro can help you with that.

Good luck

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:14:11

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to Sr. Martins)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Rui Martins

Maybe you should wait a couple of years. The situation over here isn't that good right now.

Are you referring to the Economic situation or something else like political instability ?

Because IMO the worldwide situation is not good right now and i don't see it getting better in the future. Keep in mind i live in the 2nd most expensive City in the world at the moment.

Kudo , how much money would you need to live in Andalusia for 1 year lets say , budgeting yourself heavily?

If that question is too black and white to answer i understand , i'm just trying to get a general idea.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:16:26

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to koenie17)

quote:

ORIGINAL: koenie17

Like everyone else mencioned above it´s quite important to speak Spanish and the situacion over here is VERY bad right now! There is no work and the work available is very badly paid, social rights are being cut very severe and i´m finding it very dificult to get to the end of the month So if you don´t have savings this wouldn´t be a good moment to take a chance right now. But if you want to take the risk and willing to learn or allready speak the language there are enough places where you can learn this beatifull art!
If you decide and need some direccions, myself and i´m quite sure many more people on this foro can help you with that.

Good luck

Fortunately i do have savings, i have been planning to go overseas for a while now im just not sure how far they will take me in Spain. I can afford to sit in Eastern Europe for 3+ years stretching what i have but as i said , not familiar with Spain.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:18:24

koenie17

Posts: 438
Joined: Feb. 25 2011
From: España

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

I´m from Málaga, you can rent a room for about 200,- eur a month(kitchen bathroom shared) but I guess you want to practice the guitar day and night and not everyone is gonna like that, so a studio or a small apartment is about 400,- a month. The rest depends on howmuch you spend on shopping, smoking, drinking

Are you going to drive a car or use public transport? both can be quite expensive.
Not speaking the language is quite a problem though as few Spanish speak English and this will make finding a teacher a bit more difficult.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:29:33

kudo

Posts: 2064
Joined: Sep. 3 2009

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

one thing is , if you can speak fluently spanish and or know people, you will also avoid being ripped off financially.
depending on where you are in andalucia, you need anywhere between 600-800 euros per month to live (including food and living expenses) and go to some concerts. if you want to go to school and take private clases, you add from there anywhere between 15-50 (max) euros per hour of lessons, average being 30-35 euros.
you do the math from there..

i dont know how much alcohol and smoke costs, because i dont do them. add from there

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:38:30

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

quote:

I'm 22 years old from Australia with no prospects of career at the moment, i had these prospects of starting my own business in a field that was heavily influenced by my parents but i eventually came to realize that i would end up depressed and full of aggression if i continued to peruse that life.

Better to be depressed and full of aggression with money than depressed and full of aggression poor as nail.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 22:53:06

Morante

Posts: 2233
Joined: Nov. 21 2010

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

I live in Andalucía, I speak fluent Spanish, accompany el cante, my wife is Spanish, my friends are gitanos y flamencos. I have enchufe, but this you have to earn.

A guiri who does not speak Spanish, cannot accompany el cante, arrives here and wants to rip off gitano culture (from their point of view), will end up living on the street, begging.

Unless you have money and are willing to be ripped off to learn

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 6 2013 23:32:41

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

Thanks for all the replies guys, you have given me some things to think about.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2013 5:22:21

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to Morante)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Morante

I live in Andalucía, I speak fluent Spanish, accompany el cante, my wife is Spanish, my friends are gitanos y flamencos. I have enchufe, but this you have to earn.

A guiri who does not speak Spanish, cannot accompany el cante, arrives here and wants to rip off gitano culture (from their point of view), will end up living on the street, begging.

Unless you have money and are willing to be ripped off to learn

Yeah i get that. i never really expect anything to happen so suddenly, i kinda thought that if you lived there for a while your eventually going to start picking up the language and meeting some people locally.

Also i get what others are saying about Tourists or 'Guiri' getting ripped off its the same in Macedonia and many countries in Europe like you probably know.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2013 6:36:03

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

Also how do you guys Classify a Guiri?

Ignorant Westerner ?

I think its best if i begin to learn how to speak Spanish, thanks again guys.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2013 6:48:14

Leñador

Posts: 5237
Joined: Jun. 8 2012
From: Los Angeles

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

Not necessarily ignorant but just a foreigner.

Spanish is a must in Spain nearly everyone I know that has been to Spain and didn't speak Spanish did not really enjoy it. Everyone I know that does loved it. Spaniards are not accommodating to people that don't speak the language, when you do they're super cool people.

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\m/

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 7 2013 18:43:36

tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to Leñador)

I think without spanish language skills(at least the basics) there's no point to learn guitar in andalucia.
I spent in the granada area 5 months recently and I think the best way is to start with visiting peñas if one wants to learn a bit about the culture and speak with the local aficionados and maybe take some lessons from local guitarists. Everyone was very open to me and there's nothing like drinking rom with ice and listening to real flamenco and chatting with the local aficionados. Also I find the guitarists very open, I requested to play with a flamenco guitarist couple times a rumba in a restaurant and there was no problem with that and we ended to have nice jams. I have never met better or more open people than the Andalucians. It really is the best place in the world for me(at least when it comes to people and music) and I have travelled many places between malaysia and california. Flamenco represents the people in many aspects.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2013 21:48:26

aeolus

Posts: 765
Joined: Oct. 30 2009
From: Mier

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

If one shouts loudly enough at foreigners in English they will understand.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 8 2013 21:55:27

vigrond

Posts: 161
Joined: Nov. 30 2010

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

try out duolingo.com for learning spanish. it's free and quite possibly the best resource I've come across so far...

I'm about halfway through the lessons in about 2 weeks. Granted this is fast, but it is based off of translation and "doing", so you get a bit of practical experience.

At my point, it actually starts giving you spanish internet articles to translate, then you actually get "real" experience.

very useful and kinda fun.

anyway, just a tip.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 14:09:48

Don Dionisio

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

Perhaps you could look into an all-inclusive school that teaches flamenco and Spanish language. For example, Cristina Heeren in Sevilla or Carmen de las Cuevas in Granada (among many others). They are used to foreigners and can help you find accomodations with other students which would help you meet other young people with similar interests. After a few months, you would become more familiar with the surroundings/community and could venture off and take private or group lessons, hang out with locals, etc. To start, you have to expect to pay for classes, so I would budget this into your plan and cut corners somewhere else (e.g., eat at home, drink less, quit smoking, etc.).

I think you should go now especially since you have a reserve of savings. Enjoy and keep us posted.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 14:43:54

tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to vigrond)

quote:

ORIGINAL: vigrond

try out duolingo.com for learning spanish. it's free and quite possibly the best resource I've come across so far...

I'm about halfway through the lessons in about 2 weeks. Granted this is fast, but it is based off of translation and "doing", so you get a bit of practical experience.

At my point, it actually starts giving you spanish internet articles to translate, then you actually get "real" experience.

very useful and kinda fun.

anyway, just a tip.

duolingo, what a nice site! I am a lazy reader from a book but those excercises are kind of fun

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 15:16:53

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

My Friends , much Gratitude for the Replies. I am now much better informed than i was 3 days ago , and its thanks to everyone in this thread.

I am planning to leave next year April at the latest ( which i am under the impression is when Spring starts?) , so this gives me a few Months to enroll my self into a Spanish workshop which i think will be of benefit especially at the Beginning.

Tele, thanks for the Pena's reference it sounds like you had a wonderful experience, I wont be traveling exclusively to Spain but i am always on the hunt these days for locations to add to my travel path and this sounds like one place i would want to defiantly visit. What was the pricing of accommodation like over there?

Thank you for the recommendation Vigrond every resource is valuable and i will use it to my advantage as I am keen to learn on my own time at home in addition to any courses i may sign up for.

Don Dionisio, I had not really considered going to school in Spain to learn the language though i will keep it open as a possibility and do some research on prices though ultimately this will depend on how much i am able to learn before i get over there. As for the corners you mention it was always my plan to cut them so i could stay over there for as long as possible , lucky for me I don't smoke anymore hardly drink and am able to cook my own meals.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 18:42:24

tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

I think it's a good idea not to only visit spain but europe in general if you have the money. If you rent an apartment it should cost around 200-500 euros per month for basic apartment in andalucia. Learning spanish is very useful, not only for travelling in spain.
I would say that anywhere you go in andalucia, it will be a good choice, except maybe for the tourist locations. If you are going in april it will be with good weather, then the temps go over 20 degrees. Also travelling by train/bus is quite simple. Altough if you do alot of travelling it will be more expensive than living in one location and paying monthly rent.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 19:34:03

rogeliocan

Posts: 811
Joined: Nov. 23 2009
From: Canada

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to Don Dionisio)

quote:

Perhaps you could look into an all-inclusive school that teaches flamenco and Spanish language. For example, Cristina Heeren in Sevilla or Carmen de las Cuevas in Granada (among many others). They are used to foreigners and can help you find accomodations with other students which would help you meet other young people with similar interests.

Muchisimo caro, definitely targeting foreigners. In these classes you meet a lot of other foreigners, not necessarily get to hang around with locals.

For learning Spanish, you have other options, learning at home of course, it is possible and can be done quickly if you dedicate yourself to it, save money by staying home. You can also go to places in Central America, like Guatemala, Mexico also has options and they are SUPER cheap. You board with a family, no luxuries, and you learn even faster.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 9 2013 22:11:47

Don Dionisio

Posts: 360
Joined: Feb. 16 2011
From: Durham, NC

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to rogeliocan)

quote:

Muchisimo caro, definitely targeting foreigners. In these classes you meet a lot of other foreigners, not necessarily get to hang around with locals.

I have been to these places and have seen a mixture of foreigners and Spaniards in their programs, especially in the semester/year long programs. They have produced some fine artists who have won prices in competitions, etc. In such a place, he will immediately have opportunities to accompany since they have classes for singers and dancers. Without being confident in speaking Spanish, it will be very difficult "to hang around with locals". IMO, without a plan, he will waste time and money-money that he could spend on learning how to accompany under the guidance of a master teacher.

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2013 15:10:39

tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to Don Dionisio)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Dionisio

quote:

Muchisimo caro, definitely targeting foreigners. In these classes you meet a lot of other foreigners, not necessarily get to hang around with locals.

I have been to these places and have seen a mixture of foreigners and Spaniards in their programs, especially in the semester/year long programs. They have produced some fine artists who have won prices in competitions, etc. In such a place, he will immediately have opportunities to accompany since they have classes for singers and dancers. Without being confident in speaking Spanish, it will be very difficult "to hang around with locals". IMO, without a plan, he will waste time and money-money that he could spend on learning how to accompany under the guidance of a master teacher.

I think it would be better to learn spanish through a book, web or local courses and then take classes from master teacher in spain on accompanying. Instead of paying high euros for "all inclusive" classes, altough this depends on how much money one has.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2013 15:33:31

withinity

Posts: 180
Joined: Sep. 17 2013

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to tele)

I have reached a similar line of thought Tele and most likely i wont be getting any lessons in the language over there at all.

Optimally it is now my aim to learn enough Spanish in these next few months to be able to commune with locals to a decent extent , no doubt i will learn more just being over there amidst the native tongue.

If i am speaking too broken and the locals have no patience for me then i will enjoy the weather and go about my practices alone.

It is all good either-way!

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2013 18:47:03

tele

Posts: 1469
Joined: Aug. 17 2012

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to withinity)

quote:

ORIGINAL: withinity

I have reached a similar line of thought Tele and most likely i wont be getting any lessons in the language over there at all.

Optimally it is now my aim to learn enough Spanish in these next few months to be able to commune with locals to a decent extent , no doubt i will learn more just being over there amidst the native tongue.

If i am speaking too broken and the locals have no patience for me then i will enjoy the weather and go about my practices alone.

It is all good either-way!

Well you will have to study the details ALOT if you want to speak properly, but remembering & learning new words through communicating with spanish people is somewhat easy. Actually when I arrived to andalucia, I did not even know that nobody would speak english!
Obviously your skills in spain will depend on how much you study before arriving to spain. I would recommend that duolingo to start with, it's great.

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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 10 2013 21:10:13

Ruphus

Posts: 3782
Joined: Nov. 18 2010

RE: Living and Learning In Andulasia (in reply to tele)

After one month of intensive course at the university in San Jose, Costa Rica, I found myself able to communicate even on philosophical level, albeit still with lots of uhs and ahs. ( The vast of speaking routine however came about afterwards when I roamed the country for another two months or so.)
And I was a grammatical mess.

For English you got thick books for vocabulary and relatively thin ones for grammar.
With Spanish it is the opposite.
The vocabulary is relatively easy as quantity, but Spanish grammar kills and almost everything is irregular.

You need a memory like a parrot. ( Finally, parotting can be good for something!

)
I doubt any learner above the age of 15 to manage this language to correct speech / native level.
-

Besides anyone here from Costa Rica ? I would love to have a dear old lady greated from me.

Can´t do myself. Only seven years passed and I don´t recall a single term. Hopefully re-learning from my notes some day.

Ruphus

REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE | Date Oct. 11 2013 11:28:02