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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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 RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Miguel de Maria
I was a little intimidated because I rarely play for Spaniards, but they seemed to be pretty much like normal people.
No, as an audience, they are much better!
I have played for loads of Spaniards and I used to feel the same insecurities- "Oh no, they'll probably think I'm a fraud...I won't be as good as they are in Spain....they'll have high expectations.. they'll spot any mistakes I make etc.."
I tell you, the Spanish people I have bumped into at gigs have been some of the friendliest, warmest, most appreciative and most 'fun' people to play for. Usually they come up to me excitedly and chatter away in Spanish, only to look surprised when I explain I don't speak any (probably because I am dark, I look a little Spanish?).
Once at a wedding a Spanish family sat right next to me and told me they were from Huelva. You should have seen their faces light up when I played some simple Fandangos De Huelva chords, they all burst into song. One of them phoned someone at home on his mobile in Spain cchattered away then held out his mobile so the person at the other end could hear me. That's happened a few times - they love being reminded of home.
Another time a Spanish girl threw some money on stage in the middle of my set... then there's the bar staff at La Tasca where I played my first gig accompanying - I was very nervous and they were great - shouting jaleo, doing palmas etc, really helped me and helped the gig.
Now when I hear there are Spaniards the audience, I look forward to it.
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Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
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Date Nov. 14 2005 9:08:20
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Ricardo
Posts: 14889
Joined: Dec. 14 2004
From: Washington DC
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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quote:
Ricardo,
was that in Philly or something?
Yup!
quote:
if a restaraunt cancels any sort of promotion, gig or otherwise, every customer who went there specifically to take part will remember it forever. And ever. Even if the restaraunt in question is just around the corner, they will whine about how they wasted their time and even worse, tell their friends!
I hear ya, and that is the arguement many managers/owners make. But if an artist is good, and makes a living and needs a steady gig, and does it weekly for relatively low money, they should simply live their life at the place? I mean, if it is so important to NEVER leave the gig because the business will go down than shouldn't the restaurant offer raises, health benefits, bonuses, etc to the top artists that everyone comes to see? The thing is, they typically don't. They take for granted the better than average artist who takes it serious and shows up on time, not complaining, etc, then when you get a sub or cancel, they give you a hard time. Performing artists are not cooks or waiters, and should not be treated as such. One owner asked me "tell me ricardo, when is the next time you are going to f..k my business?", I said "well actually, two weeks from now, so brace yourself!  ".
The thing that really bugs me is when the sub gets hassled. I could understand if they offered more money to the main guy or something, and gave the subs less, but restaurants get spoiled when they realize that most of their business is because of entertainment and not the food/service. I can't tell you how many times I wished I could be in two places at once, and not because of $. I play 6 nights a week, and it is a constant problem. I have worked it out so that some steady gigs, if I can't get my top choice sub, it is easy enough to cancel the gig. It is so much easier that way. Nobody's feelling hurt, see you next week.
Ricardo
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Date Nov. 15 2005 5:55:56
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Ricardo,
I hate playing at restaurants/bars, etc. Private, corporate, and weddings are where I do my damage... there are pros and cons but the pros include a high level of mutual professionalism and about 2X the cash. Musicians who play at restaurants are "the help", and there's usually an attitude like you are a busboy instead of a highly skilled and dedicated professional. Although you have the education and knowledge of a lawyer, you're treated like an unskilled laborer! Did I say I hate playing at restaurants! :) When you play at corporate functions, weddings, etc., you are working with other professionals and largely treated like one. I'm booked for 17 gigs this month and only 5 are open to the public!
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Date Nov. 15 2005 13:46:47
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to ToddK)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: ToddK
But you're still just the help, wether its a wedding or a restruaunt.
Believe me, they're alot more concerned with the food being
done well, than they are about the band.
Unless you're playing a concert, where people pay to see only
you or you're group, then you're nothing more than a jukebox,
and in many cases you can be easily replaced by a DJ.
Hey Todd, a musician's gotta work!
Its hard enough making any kind of living out of restaurants/weddings/corporate gigs, the purely 'live concert' thing as a career option simply doesn't exist for solo guitarists (at least in the UK) unless you are of world class ability, famous, and have international contacts etc. Most classically trained musicians who aren't prepared for the realities of the market place end up flipping burgers.
Restaurant gigs can be a drag and you are right that people are there for the food mainly, but in my experience weddings are different, its an important part of the whole day. There's something special about the bride walking up the aisle in a hushed room accompanied by a live guitarist playing something suitable, a CD just isn't the same.
I like doing wedding gigs; everyone is happy, you get paid properly and treated like a professional as Mike says.
_____________________________
Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
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Date Nov. 15 2005 14:47:48
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Mark2
Posts: 1882
Joined: Jul. 12 2004
From: San Francisco
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Concerts are the best, if you can participate at a certain level, but clubs and corporates can both be fun, or both be a drag. I laughed at Miguel's mention of being treated like a respected pro, not because it doesn't happen, but because it can be the reverse too. A lot has to do with the way the relationship starts, and how much you want the gig. Todd cracked me up too, because he's right about the food being way more important than the music on a corporate. For casuals, it all comes down to money for me. If I'm getting a grand, you can treat me like a waiter and I won't say jack. I just think about the check and smile. Hell, for two grand, I'll serve desert too. 
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Date Nov. 15 2005 18:37:15
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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I've only participated in a couple concerts in marginal, supporting roles, but I look forward to doing some in the future. I guess I come from a different perspective, because I used to suffer from extreme stage fright, not to mention a high degree of lack of skill! But my stage fright and the skill thing are coming around, although it's a process, right? I like the casual nature of restaurant gigs but unlike Ricardo, I don't mind wearing a tux. In fact, I look good in a tux and for me it's kind of fun to "dress up" occasionally. Actually I own a tux and recently convinced my agent to add $15 to my fee for dry cleaning costs.
I guess when I get as good as you guys, I'll probably be clamoring for a bit more attention and consideration, but for now, I'm quite happy playign music I like and getting paid for it. Maybe the people hiring me think of me on the same level of someone who waits tables, but I've waited tables before...playing music is much better :)
I just wanted to add... I have some friends that have a popular flamenco group in Phoenix, they do dance shows and also play Latin standards and GK and such. They have had a high-paying steady gig for about 5 years at a very nice resort here in Scottsdale. I was at their show this weekend, and the hotel had remodeled the lounge area. They had cut the stage in half and there was very little room for the dancers. Also, they had two huge colums that held the speakers that blocked the view of the stage for large parts of the room. Finally, they told me they had just gotten a memo which basically said: No more smoozing and talking with guests, Breaks reduced to 10 min. (in a four hour gig!), and No more selling CDs. Can you imagine! I thought to myself, time to explore other options here :(
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Date Nov. 16 2005 4:09:36
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Ryan002)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ryan002
Employers may be frustrating, but wherever you are playing, just remember you are doing something many people can only dream about and will never have an opportunity to do. Think that way and you'll be happy no matter who the boss is.
I can understand that as an amateurs' perspective (nothing derogatory intended by that, many amateuers play at a pro level) and when I first started gigging that's just what I thought. I used to finish gigs with a huge grin on my face, had to pinch myself to check I wasn't dreaming, it was like "I've been having fun playing guitar for a couple of hours in this nice restaurant overlooking the sea, and now someone wants to PAY me for it too?"
However, a few years later with the early novelty factor wearing off and more serious things depending on my ability to earn money from music, I have a different perspective. It is very different working as a musican as opposed to playing for pleasure. You have to work hard to ensure that there are still things that you enjoying doing, and that you don't just do it all for the money. Playing a gig that you don't really want to do is just like any other job that you don't want to do.
There's also the related myth that just because we are musicians and doing something 'fun', then its not really a proper job and should be paid accordingly. Its true that playing music professionally is rewarding, but we still have to put food on the table.
Kate wrote an eloquent post on all this a while back.
PS, Depressing statistics for the day -"Performers are also generally on low incomes, 66% of Musicians'’ Union members earn less than £7,500 pa whilst 86% of Equity members earn under £6,600 pa. They can’t afford private health insurance and they may well keep working even when they are ill to keep earning." [Source - British Assoc. For Performing Arts Medecine.]
_____________________________
Spanish Guitarist in Devon, Cornwall and Somerset
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Date Nov. 17 2005 13:02:33
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Spanish audiences at gigs (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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Jon,
I feel you man...ouch! Last night I played with two other musicians, one of whom is quite bitter. She was complaining about this agency and that agency, and I could tell that the whole business of music was stressing her out. Our performance was far below what I was used to putting out, and it didn't surprise me that they were having problems. There is a bit of a trap for a musician to just kind of rely on his experience, but you still have to have discipline and good practice habits, record yourself and listen to what other people think of you. There is a danger that you can fall into bad habits, get lazy. Or maybe it was just these guys :(
Jon's been doing this for longer than me, I still like it. But I don't see myself being a lounge musician for my whole career, either. This is just the first step for me. I don't know if I want to be selling guitars like Esteban, but I would like to get a higher profile and sell CDs and that kind of thing.
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Date Nov. 17 2005 14:39:44
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