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Point break
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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 Point break
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Something Jon Boyes made me think. He said that there are some techniques that cannot be done slowly. Just as practicing walking is not how one practices running, perhaps practicing slowly does not help when one goes faster. A good thought. Also, Scott Tennant mentions that there is a "break point," in scales, a noticeable spot where the technique breaks down, and where the player can play well above and below. Everyone, he says, has a break point--it is a flaw that must be worked around. And he said that Eddie Lastra's continuos rasgueo also had one of these break points. He started slow, accelerated smoothly--but there was a point where it hit another gear and then went fast. Not a smooth, steady acceleration, then, but a plateau. Another example of break point, I would think.
I decided to test this in my own playing. I wanted to see one, whether I have these break points too, and two, whether I can eliminate them. I tested this with picado, arpeggio, xmaii rasgueo, and pmi rasgueo.
The answer is that I do have break points. There is a spot in all of these techniques where it seems I hit another gear. It's not a smooth progression. I hypothesize that there is a true shift in technique here. The muscles are being used in different proportions, in a different way. The sensation is different.
But then I tried to do it the other way, to do it smoothly. First I tried the xamii rasgeuo, going real slow, and smoothly accelerating. I found that I could to it, but that it took a concerted effort. My hand wanted to go into overdrive, but I would not let it. I held it back like a horse chomping at the bit. The verdict is out on this one. I reached pretty high speeds in 1st gear--one xamii per beat at 132 bpm. So I could smoothly accelerate all the way up to that, all in 1st gear. The break point doesn't seem to be a big factor here.
I tried the same thing with picado, and was able to smoothly accelerate from a standing start to 160 bmp sixteenth notes, all in 1st gear. At least to my perception, I was able to eliminate this break point that Scott Tennant claims everyone has.
Now I got tired of the experiment, as I'm sure you all are, but I hope this raises some questions or interest. If it is true that the sensations and motions for playing both xamii rasgeuo and picado are the same from a standing start all the way up to the limits of necessary speed, then does the "practicing walking to run" analogy hold true? Obviously other people have different sensations of playing the guitar. I have been practicing slowly for a couple weeks fairly religiously now, maybe this has added a different level or feeling of control. That being said, to get my picado up to speed I did lots of speed bursts which are rather the opposite school of thought than the slow practice.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 15 2003 17:51:15
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Jon Boyes
Posts: 1377
Joined: Jul. 10 2003
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RE: Point break (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Michael W Cho
If it is true that the sensations and motions for playing both xamii rasgeuo and picado are the same from a standing start all the way up to the limits of necessary speed, then does the "practicing walking to run" analogy hold true?
(snip)
That being said, to get my picado up to speed I did lots of speed bursts which are rather the opposite school of thought than the slow practice.
Michael
*Both* have their place, that is the important thing.
Analogy again - there's is no way you would learn to run without first learning too walk, but you don't become a faster and more efficient runner by practising your walking.
I went through a period when I was studying classical guitar when, like you, I was determined to discover everything I could about the development of technique. I wanted to understand it all, to maxmise my chances of improving my tech. and becoming a better player. I read books, I watched videos, I debated things at length on different classical guitar forums.
All that stuff has given me a greater undertanding of how things work, for sure, but I don't think it was helpful to concentrate so much time on such a mechanistic approach.
I think Ron makes a good point - too much mico-analysis of technique can get your head spinning, don't forget making music! Ultimately you have to let go, and let your hands 'do' what you you hear in your head.
Jon
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Date Sep. 16 2003 8:37:22
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gerundino63
Posts: 1743
Joined: Jul. 11 2003
From: The Netherlands
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RE: Point break (in reply to Jon Boyes)
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hi Flamenco frends!
nice subject!
I have done (and still do a little) a lot of sport, so I learned something about training and preparing your body and mind.
you have a lot of exercices, to gain more speed, or train techniques.
A lot are useful for different sports, slow practice for instance, is good for, let say, speedskating ( remember, I am from holland), but allso table tennis.
And sorry, slow walking does not make you faster, but slow running do!
You get very consious where you place your feet, and how it roll of.
Here are some sport techniques, that I find useful for guitarplaying,
Visualisation Techniques
Mental Rehearsal
Autogenic Training
But remember, FUN, is the most importand!
greetings, and have a nice day, Peter.
p.s
For the good record,I must say, that, with running, you must train explosive speed too
, becouse you use other mussles then.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 16 2003 13:03:33
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Michael
Posts: 18
Joined: Jul. 18 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Point break (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Michael,
Alright, we won't show up, just tell me where you're playing. 
How good or bad something or someone is, is nothing more than a perception. Where you feel you are, in so far as where you want to be, is your opinion of your ability. Not anyone else's. The fact that you have taken enormous strides to accomplish what you have set out to do is extrememly praise worthy. And in my books, no matter where anyone is on their ladder to success, they are all worthy of listening to. Besides... who am I to judge anyone. All I am is a person who enjoys listening to various forms of flamenco. I can't play worth a s--t and have never claimed any ability to do so. I just enjoy the atmosphere. By the way, did you see Ottmar last night?
Regards,
Michael
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Date Sep. 18 2003 15:15:46
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Miguel de Maria
Posts: 3532
Joined: Oct. 20 2003
From: Phoenix, AZ
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RE: Point break (in reply to Miguel de Maria)
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Michael, I did see Ottmar last night. Sorry to say it, but I felt that was a very boring show... and I've always thought that Ottmar was very important for us lovers of latin music. If people see him, who's the biggest selling act, and he's lame, then it doesn't reflect well on us in the minds of the laymen. I'll be playing Barrio Cafe, south of Thomas on 16th st West side, 730 - 930. No flamenco, really, just rumba and cuban and santana. I'm not really happy about our sound, we're really out of practice and singing off-key and stuff like that.
By the way, if you like, email me and I'll email you the information about the flamenco workshop this weekend.
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REPORT THIS POST AS INAPPROPRIATE |
Date Sep. 18 2003 15:46:04
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